French Baroque Music

[Wakefield]

On period instruments in January:

Excellent! Those two guys are some of the best Baroque performers recording on Naxos.

[petrarch]

Speaking of Couperin, this one is also in the pipeline for January:

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[71 dB]

On period instruments in January:

Oh my God, that seems delicious! 

[Drasko]

While we are at Francois Couperin's Pieces de Violes Alia Vox seems to be reissuing Savall's seminal recording with Koopman. Performances are fantastic, both played and recorded. CD is bit on short side at about 45 minutes, but I honestly don't mind since Couperin wrote only two suites and they happen to be so superb that any make-weight seemed always unnecessary to me.

It's already listed at UK vendors, at lower price than Alia Vox usual (probably because of CD length) but it seems they have not yet decided on cover art.



http://www.mdt.co.uk/couperin-pieces-de-violes-1728-jordi-savall-alia-vox-sacd.html
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Alia%2BVox/AVSA9893

[Mandryka]

While we are at Francois Couperin's Pieces de Violes Alia Vox seems to be reissuing Savall's seminal recording with Koopman. Performances are fantastic, both played and recorded. CD is bit on short side at about 45 minutes, but I honestly don't mind since Couperin wrote only two suites and they happen to be so superb that any make-weight seemed always unnecessary to me.

It's already listed at UK vendors, at lower price than Alia Vox usual (probably because of CD length) but it seems they have not yet decided on cover art.



http://www.mdt.co.uk/couperin-pieces-de-violes-1728-jordi-savall-alia-vox-sacd.html
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Alia%2BVox/AVSA9893

I too am very fond of the Couperin suites, as I am of all his late music. But somehow  Savall/Koopman has never become a favourite, I just think they're too melancholy. I honestly feel that, from the point of view of the poetry, they have been outplayed since they made that record in 1975, by Meneke van der Velden with Glen Wilson, for example. And me, I prefer the record with Jay Betnfield and Skip Sempe, though I appreciate that this is an aquired taste maybe.

[Drasko]

I too am very fond of the Couperin suites, as I am of all his late music. But somehow  Savall/Koopman has never become a favourite, I just think they're too melancholy. I honestly feel that, from the point of view of the poetry, they have been outplayed since they made that record in 1975, by Meneke van der Velden with Glen Wilson, for example. And me, I prefer the record with Jay Betnfield and Skip Sempe, though I appreciate that this is an aquired taste maybe.

Melancholy works for me. I faintly remember disliking van der Velden recording because of balance between gamba and continuo which I thought unduly dominated. Betnfield haven't heard. 

[SonicMan46]

Boy, I've not posted in this thread for over a year, but just received the 2-CD set below from BRO ($14):

Marais, Marin - Second Livre (Suites IV, V, VI, VII) w/ Charbonnier, Rousseau, et al on the French label, Ligia Digital - liner notes are in French only - ughh!  This group seems to have made about 20 or more CDs of Marais' music!  My first experience and on the initial listening quite excellent performances; my only comparison (not yet done back to back) is w/ Savall on the Suites IV & VI.

Just curious if others here interested in this music can provide some more insight into these Ligia offerings?  Not much available on Amazon USA except for some MP3 downloads or new/used offerings at exorbitant prices - thanks for any information - Dave

[Coopmv]

Boy, I've not posted in this thread for over a year, but just received the 2-CD set below from BRO ($14):

Marais, Marin - Second Livre (Suites IV, V, VI, VII) w/ Charbonnier, Rousseau, et al on the French label, Ligia Digital - liner notes are in French only - ughh!  This group seems to have made about 20 or more CDs of Marais' music!  My first experience and on the initial listening quite excellent performances; my only comparison (not yet done back to back) is w/ Savall on the Suites IV & VI.

Just curious if others here interested in this music can provide some more insight into these Ligia offerings?  Not much available on Amazon USA except for some MP3 downloads or new/used offerings at exorbitant prices - thanks for any information - Dave

BRO is superb for these somewhat obscure but nice recordings ...

[Sammy]

On period instruments in January:

Should be an excellent disc.  Hakkinen impressed me greatly with his Bach Goldbergs on Alba.

[Ralf Hutter]

Boy, I've not posted in this thread for over a year, but just received the 2-CD set below from BRO ($14):


Just curious if others here interested in this music can provide some more insight into these Ligia offerings?  Not much available on Amazon USA except for some MP3 downloads or new/used offerings at exorbitant prices - thanks for any information - Dave

Charbonnier has recorded material from all five of Marais' VdG books. Books 3, 4 and 5 were released on the Pierre Verany label in the 1990s with the remaining two being released on Ligia Digital over the past 10 years. Each book is represented by 4 discs, except for the fourth book, which is 5 discs and the second book, which contains 6 discs.

All are recorded in glorious, glorious sound, with the PV being credited as "24 bit Nagra Digital" and the Ligia as "24-96". Performances are all exemplary. I enjoy them more than the series of recordings by my long-time hero, Savall.

The Ligia are all still in print but are difficult to find. I was quite surprised to see that one set show up at BRO a few weeks back. The PV are long gone and command fairly lofty prices when they do show up.

[SonicMan46]

Charbonnier has recorded material from all five of Marais' VdG books. Books 3, 4 and 5 were released on the Pierre Verany label in the 1990s with the remaining two being released on Ligia Digital over the past 10 years. Each book is represented by 4 discs, except for the fourth book, which is 5 discs and the second book, which contains 6 discs.

All are recorded in glorious, glorious sound, with the PV being credited as "24 bit Nagra Digital" and the Ligia as "24-96". Performances are all exemplary. I enjoy them more than the series of recordings by my long-time hero, Savall.

The Ligia are all still in print but are difficult to find. I was quite surprised to see that one set show up at BRO a few weeks back. The PV are long gone and command fairly lofty prices when they do show up.

Hi Ralf Hutter - welcome to the forum!

Thanks for your comments above - you seem to know this material well; I re-listened to those 2 discs today and really enjoyed (have not made any direct comparisons w/ my Savall recordings but cannot imagine them being better, as you already have noted); still a little irritated about the liner notes being in French only - Dave

[Mandryka]

What are the best examples of French baroque variations?

[Drasko]

What are the best examples of French baroque variations?

Probably Rameau's Gavotte et 6 Doubles from a minor Suite, or Les Niais de Sologne et 2 Doubles from D Major Suite.

French didn't seem to were into melodic variations that much. On the other hand Passacaille and Chaconne were abundant, as forms of what's it called ... chromatic variation? There you have Lully's Passacaille from Armide, from Phaeton, Chaconne from Roland, Couperin's La Favorite ...

[The new erato]

Absolutely outstanding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pekZPcODgdw

Go to 1:24:20 and see if you aren't captivated!

[Que]

Coincidentally, the last page of this thread does contain some posts about Jean-Louis Charbonnier's Marais series -  which are on Ligia and Pierre Vérany!

Let's add my praise to that of Dave's, and reiterate what Harry already told us many, many moons ago... 

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This is in short a magnificent set. I would say this is a one stop for anyone seeking Marais playing in a natural, idiomatic way, which shows all facets of Marin Marais' art.
The fact this in a "book" of viol music, Marais 4th of five books, the music included is very varied in form and style. It contains three parts.
First 6 suites in French style (d'un Goût français ) which are typical French viol music in a simple, introverted, melodic style. Then the suites in "foreign" style (d'un Goût étranger) in which Marias shows of his ability to incorporate non-French influences as well as his ability to write in a virtuosic style. - the result is exhilarating. Two highly expressive, "wiry" suites for 3 viols conclude the set.

Playing is beyond reproach. Like I said natural and idiomatic. If I compare with other Marias recordings I have on the shelf - Savall and Pandolfo - Charbonnier is less theatrical without added "oomph" (Savall) and has a more playful, dance like approach then Pandolfo et all. who more explicitly look for "inner depth" wit slow tempi and the break up of rhythmic lines.
I would say this is Marais as he is, in his simplicity as well in his complexity, if that makes any sense at all...

Perhaps better to give it a listen yourselves!

Q

[Mandryka]

Interesting artlicle by Glen Wilson here, where he casts doubt on the quality and authenticity of some of the organ music attributed to Louis Couperin.

http://www.glenwilson.eu/article1.html

I have had serious doubts about Louis' monopoly on the family business since the disappointing day when I first read through Guy Oldham's long-anticipated edition of the pièces d'orgue, which he discovered in London in 1958. These are in many cases signed and dated - in a handwriting which is under dispute - and are undoubtedly the work of the first of the Couperins to establish himself in Paris. It struck me very forcibly then that this was not the same composer as the beloved author of most of the harpsichord pieces that Landowska was playing by 1910 (she writes about them in a letter to Saint-Saens in 1914), and which Paul Brunold published in 1932 under Louis' name. I know I will anger many people with this assessment, but the composer of the organ pieces is in every way less competent than that of the harpsichord works. They are the work of someone solemnly going through the motions of contrapuntal manipulation; langueurs abound; a sense of forced improvisation prevails. The extraordinary sequence of pieces in what is loosely called the Phrygian mode - almost half the total number - shows a composer grappling, unsuccessfully, for mastery. They are certainly full of "doctes recherches" and "belles dissonnances", and there is a good moment or two in every piece, but these qualities only serve to mask a general poverty of invention. Some of the duos and bass récits are more interesting, and there is one really fine piece: the Prelude in the first ton, nr. 46. Couperin must have thought highly of it, for he designates it for an "autre livre grand livre d'Orgue"; either that, or his copyist extracted it from another book.

The Phrygian sequence, does that include all the First sequence of fugues and fantasies? (My guess is, yes it does.) I wonder if this sort of doubt is at the bottom of why organists seem to have not taken up Louis Couperin's music very enthusiastically.

[Geo Dude]

For Lullistas out there, I strongly recommend this set:

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I see that this one escaped the opera thread purgatory.   I haven't heard this one yet, but it's in the mail.  I discovered it by accident while looking for a book on the Carnival of Venice at Amazon and immediately ordered it after checking out a few reviews.

How sober and square and old fashioned these guys [Hantai & Sempe] look. Like two crusty university university types. I like baroque music more and more -- I much prefer it to contemporary classical music. But I really don't want to be associated with that look.

You have a point there.  Scott Ross had the right idea...




This is a great disc:

[Geo Dude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHF6GkfqWPY

Someone was kind enough to put Baumont's first book of (F) Couperin up on YouTube.  Perfect, as usual*, though perhaps lacking just a bit for those who like their French baroque with an extra "punch" to it.



*To be fair, I haven't heard Gilbert yet.

[Que]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHF6GkfqWPY

Someone was kind enough to put Baumont's first book of (F) Couperin up on YouTube.  Perfect, as usual*, though perhaps lacking just a bit for those who like their French baroque with an extra "punch" to it.

*To be fair, I haven't heard Gilbert yet.

Neither have I, but I think for real punch Christophe Rousset would be the most likely candidate - pretty dashing and virtuosic.
Let us hope that that set will be reissued soon! It is a disgrace that most of he greatest F. Couperin sets are currently unavailable: Rousset, Spieth (both of which I luckily managed to obtain) and Scott Ross....the big absentee on my shelves....

Q

[Que]

A short not on this disc, I believe that at least drasko was interested to hear about it.



Henry Madin was originally a provincial composer (Verdun, Tours) who came to Paris later in life (which might account for his status as a relatively unkown?), who wrote in the traditional French motets style. Though Madin generally wrote reperoire on a grander scale, the idea here is to apply the tradition of drawing a "petit motet" from a work for a larger setting.This involves transfering instrumental lines to the solo voices. The result is pretty, but there defintely is something bothering me here.... First, it seems there were not that many suitable works, resulting in a rather meagre offering of just over 35 minutes of singing. This is topped up two rather random instrumental interludes, though these pieces by Clerambault are perfectly performed by Helene Schmitt et al. Secondly, why not record some of the four masses and thirthy (!) grand motets that Madin left us?  Because -and I guess there is the upside - I would definitely want to hear some...

Review by Johan van Veen: http://www.musica-dei-donum.org/cd_reviews/K617_K617184.html

Like him, I am giving this recording a qualified recommendation for the French motets enthusiast.

Q