Louis Armstrong

[Josquin des Prez]

I have listened to jazz all of my life and never have been impressed with anything the guy did.

Its easy to be dazzled by Parker's virtuosity and complexity. Another thing entirely is to understand the full import of even the scantest of Armstrong solos, such as the brief intro for West End Blues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmmFKu4FEbc

Which to me are worth more then then some of the most virtuosic ramblings of Gillespie.

[Josquin des Prez]

Well, at least it seems you thought it through.  Shame you don't enjoy him, but plenty of jazz out there.  However, here is Be-Bop great Diz with Satch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1uMjz3n3w

Add to this:

'No Armstrong, no me.'-Dizzy Gillespie

I think it was Miles Davis who said Armstrong had left very little for trumpet players to do, since he had already done everything. Or something along those lines.

[Bogey]

, such as the brief intro for West End Blues:

Top-shelf.

[Josquin des Prez]

To think of it, Armstrong occupies the same place in Jazz that Joseph Haydn does in classical music. Highly influential and the music is often of the utmost perfection, yet, sometimes their work is scoffed for not being as complex or as virtuosic as that of the following generations of musicians.

[Mirror Image]

To think of it, Armstrong occupies the same place in Jazz that Joseph Haydn does in classical music. Highly influential and the music is often of the utmost perfection, yet, sometimes their work is scoffed for not being as complex or as virtuosic as that of the following generations of musicians.

I have my opinion of Armstrong and you have yours. No right or wrong here. All is good in the jazz world. Enjoy the music. You dig? 

[Mirror Image]

I think it was Miles Davis who said Armstrong had left very little for trumpet players to do, since he had already done everything. Or something along those lines.

Miles' main influence as a trumpeter was Clark Terry, but he was also heavily influenced by Charlie Parker. Miles used to go see Clark Terry in Kansas City whenever he got the chance, but when he lived in New York City he would skip classes at Julliard to try and track down Parker. Miles didn't really hit his stride as a musician until Birth of the Cool, which was seen as a reaction against bebop. The truth is Miles couldn't necessarily play bebop that great, but what he did excel in that no trumpeter before or since has been do so passionately is play ballads. This was where Miles was at his best.

[Josquin des Prez]

I have my opinion of Armstrong and you have yours. No right or wrong here. All is good in the jazz world. Enjoy the music. You dig? 

No, i don't dig. We cannot be both right, which means one of us is wrong. And i fear that would be you.   

Miles' main influence as a trumpeter was Clark Terry, but he was also heavily influenced by Charlie Parker. Miles used to go see Clark Terry in Kansas City whenever he got the chance, but when he lived in New York City he would skip classes at Julliard to try and track down Parker. Miles didn't really hit his stride as a musician until Birth of the Cool, which was seen as a reaction against bebop. The truth is Miles couldn't necessarily play bebop that great, but what he did excel in that no trumpeter before or since has been do so passionately is play ballads. This was where Miles was at his best.

I think there's more to Miles then his ability to play beautiful ballads. He has a certain relationship to time, a special sense of space where emptiness often speaks louder then sound. His music is every bit as relentless as bebop, but much of it is implied rather then stated. His sense of rhythm is also extremely esoteric.

[Bogey]

You dig? 

Dug!   Thanks for the Parker rec. on the side, MI.

To think of it, Armstrong occupies the same place in Jazz that Joseph Haydn does in classical music. Highly influential and the music is often of the utmost perfection, yet, sometimes their work is scoffed for not being as complex or as virtuosic as that of the following generations of musicians.

"No Papa, no me."-Mozart

[Mirror Image]

I think there's more to Miles then his ability to play beautiful ballads. He has a certain relationship to time, a special sense of space where emptiness often speaks louder then sound. His music is every bit as relentless as bebop, but much of it is implied rather then stated. His sense of rhythm is also extremely esoteric.

Agreed, Miles was amazing, but aside from his own music and imaginative improvisations, let's not forget that he was also one of the great band builders of his time. His sense of knowing who he should/shouldn't play with was uncanny. He just had that knack for finding the right musicians to play with. I mean to put Coltrane, Adderley, and Bill Evans in the same room together was ingenius. Wynton Kelly did play on Kind of Blue, but he and Jimmy Cobb were definitely the odd men out on that session. This isn't to imply that they weren't great musicians, but Trane, Cannoball, Evans, and Miles made that record what it is today: legendary.

[Josquin des Prez]

Agreed, Miles was amazing, but aside from his own music and imaginative improvisations, let's not forget that he was also one of the great band builders of his time. His sense of knowing who he should/shouldn't play with was uncanny. He just had that knack for finding the right musicians to play with. I mean to put Coltrane, Adderley, and Bill Evans in the same room together was ingenius. Wynton Kelly did play on Kind of Blue, but he and Jimmy Cobb were definitely the odd men out on that session. This isn't to imply that they weren't great musicians, but Trane, Cannoball, Evans, and Miles made that record what it is today: legendary.

You'll get no arguments from me. I kinda wish he didn't include Wynton Kelly. I know he wanted a more bluesy approach for Freddie Freeloader but i wish he had let Evans try. Compared to the rarefied modal atmosphere of the latter Kelly felt a bit too conventional.

[Bogey]

You'll get no arguments from me. I kinda wish he didn't include Wynton Kelly. I know he wanted a more bluesy approach for Freddie Freeloader but i wish he had let Evans try. Compared to the rarefied modal atmosphere of the latter Kelly felt a bit too conventional.

I enjoy the Kelly cameo, but would love to have a track where Evans gave it a go.  I remember reading that Kelly was floored when he showed up and Evans was there. 

[bwv 1080]

I have listened to jazz all of my life and never have been impressed with anything the guy did. Sorry, but I don't hear greatness at all. I hear somebody who can't sing or play trumpet and hated anybody who could.

Louis Armstrong created Jazz as we know it, if you don't like the older style of Jazz that he played, fine - but don't trash the greatest American popular musician of the 20th century - the man was a giant and everyone who came after him owes him a profound debt - something all the bebop players understood

[Chaszz]

The most important musician in the history of jazz, and perhaps America's greatest musical artist, Louis Armstrong is widely misunderstood as a genial elder statesman singing What a Wonderful World. Armstrong singlehandedly turned jazz into a serious art form with his astonishing trumpet solos of the 1920s. These solos were improvised or in many cases were composed beforehand and can bear comparison with great classical music. Armstrong's soloing genius was equaled only by Charlie Parker in jazz, but Charlie Parker and everyone else in jazz was Louis' child, after he turned the simple folk music of 1920s jazz into a high soloist art form. This thread will be dedicated to spreading knowledge about Louis and his achievements. There will be key recordings and analysis of them. I will attempt to focus attention on the Armstrong recordings of the 1920s and to a lesser extent on the 1930s, as these are markedly greater than Armstrong's records from 1935 and later. For trumpet solos these is almost nothing in Armstrong's later career that can compare to the 1920s and 30s solos. This is not true of his singing, which always stayed great, but it was his trumpet playing that was more significant in creating jazz.

It is mind-boggling to listen to these 70 or 80 3-minute records and realize the Armstrong was soloing on trumpet all night almost every night, sometimes 30 choruses at a clip in a song . If these records are any indication, it would have been like hearing Bach or Beethoven improvising at the keyboard for an evening to hear Armstrong playing trumpet for several hours on an average night.

The thread is in progress. 

[Mirror Image]

But does Louis Armstrong belong in the classical part of the forum? I think not. To 'The Diner' this thread goes!

[The new erato]

Wherever it is, I will follow it with interest.

[North Star]

Louis Armstrong & Ella Fitzgerald, accompanied by Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis, Ray Brown & Buddy Rich.
https://www.youtube.com/v/4VHWw9G6_UU

[The new erato]

Louis Armstrong & Ella Fitzgerald, accompanied by Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis, Ray Brown & Buddy Rich.
https://www.youtube.com/v/4VHWw9G6_UU

I have that album, and it is marvellous.In quite good sound as well.

[Jubal Slate]

But does Louis Armstrong belong in the classical part of the forum? I think not.

Disagree.

[Mirror Image]

Disagree.

When did jazz become classical? Did I miss the memo?

[Jubal Slate]

When did jazz become classical? Did I miss the memo?

Well, the OP made some points above, and then there's this:

[asin]0306804913[/asin]