Crazy audiophile products

[Shrunk]

Audiophiles (of which I shamefacedly consider myself one) have a reputation for gullibility, and for having more money than sense.  Machina Dynamica, a manufacturer of rather unusual isolation products, show that those reputations are well-deserved.  I can't do justice to the company's own promotional literature.  Click on the links to "Clever Little Clock" and "Brilliant Pebbles":

http://www.machinadynamica.com/

To date, I have been undecided on whether the owners of the company, themselves, believe in their own products.  However, their latest venture has convinced me: This is either a scam, or an elaborate sociological experiment:

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina60.htm

[71 dB]

The funniest link I have seen for a long time! 

What the heck is it? Brilliant Pebbles is a unique room & system tuning device for audio systems and satellite TV. Original (Large) Brilliant Pebbles is a 3-inch clear glass bottle containing various minerals/stones.

Very funny! Religious objects are sold similar way.

[Heather Harrison]

I, too, have observed the tendency of "audiophile" products to go beyond ridiculous.  Not too long ago (and I can't remember where right now) I saw some sort of fancy wooden volume control knob that was intended to be a replacement for whatever existing knob one might have; supposedly it made some sort of great improvement, but I can't imagine what.

Some audiophile equipment probably does make a modest improvement in sound quality, but a lot of that stuff is so expensive that it is well past the point of diminishing returns.  I suppose people with too much money and too little to do can spend $100,000 to achieve a barely detectable improvement in sound quality, but I don't have that kind of money to waste, especially when there are lots of CDs and records to buy.

The site that Shrunk posted is one of the funniest I have seen.  I'll have to browse through it a bit more.

Heather

[Daverz]

The "green pen" is still being sold by high-end audio store, along with a lot of other crap (dare I even mention cables and interconnects?).   When I took an Audio Advisor sales guy to task for this on rec.audio.opinion, he and everyone else laughed it off.  Perfectly legitimate to take the rubes money for junk in their opinion, despite what this says to the rest of their customers.  Well, I still buy things there and on other sites that sell the green pen, so I guess I shouldn't whine too much since that makes me part of the problem.

[Harry]

Some things work some things don't.
Cables and interlinks work, whatever one may say.
I have absolute hearing, and can easily hear the significance of cables, even in a blind test, which I often did.

[71 dB]

Some things work some things don't.
Cables and interlinks work, whatever one may say.
I have absolute hearing, and can easily hear the significance of cables, even in a blind test, which I often did.

As an acoustics engineer I'd say room acoustics+loudspeaker/listening spot placement are the most important things in audio reproduction. Then comes loudspeakers. Then the amplifier and the sound source. All these have clear signicance. Cables are much less significant. As long as you have electrically proper cables the sound is what it is. People should not put money in expensive cables but in room acoustics. That's 1000 times more efective.

Audiophile products are based on placebo effect. So, they DO HAVE an effect. The effect takes place in our head! In that sense buying them is kind of justified. The placebo effect does not work for me as I am educated scientifically.

[Harry]

As an acoustics engineer I'd say room acoustics+loudspeaker/listening spot placement are the most important things in audio reproduction. Then comes loudspeakers. Then the amplifier and the sound source. All these have clear signicance. Cables are much less significant. As long as you have electrically proper cables the sound is what it is. People should not put money in expensive cables but in room acoustics. That's 1000 times more efective.

Audiophile products are based on placebo effect. So, they DO HAVE an effect. The effect takes place in our head! In that sense buying them is kind of justified. The placebo effect does not work for me as I am educated scientifically.

No my friend I have to disagree most vehemently, although you may have a education in this field, my involvement in the high end business 35 years now, has learnt me on thing to trust my ears, and that has nothing to do with placebo effects.
So I beg to differ.

[71 dB]

No my friend I have to disagree most vehemently, although you may have a education in this field, my involvement in the high end business 35 years now, has learnt me on thing to trust my ears, and that has nothing to do with placebo effects.
So I beg to differ.

How do you explain the differences between cables? At audio frequencies these cables are very simple passive centralized electric components and their possibilities to do something to the signal is very limited. Sorry Harry, but audiophiles without scientific education let themselves be mindtricked. Cables have differences (different electric parameters) but the difference is so small who cares? I move my head 10 cm and the difference is bigger!

[Harry]

How do you explain the differences between cables? At audio frequencies these cables are very simple passive centralized electric components and their possibilities to do something to the signal is very limited. Sorry Harry, but audiophiles without scientific education let themselves be mindtricked. Cables have differences (different electric parameters) but the difference is so small who cares? I move my head 10 cm and the difference is bigger!

No, my friend I friendly beg to differ!
My ears explain, not figures.
And I am not mindtricked either!

[Daverz]

Cables and interlinks work

Well, of course they work.  The interconnects that I pick up at Frys for $5 work fine.

I have absolute hearing, and can easily hear the significance of cables, even in a blind test, which I often did.

Good for you.

[71 dB]

No, my friend I friendly beg to differ!
My ears explain, not figures.
And I am not mindtricked either!

I'm sure you hear differences. I have good hearing myself too, but when the differences are small enough why not forgot they even exist and just enjoy the music? If I worried about the sound of every cable I own I'd go nuts. If a millionary wants to use his/her money on pricy cables that ok, but most people struggle to buy a decent system! Money should be used wisely and efectively.

Well, of course they work.  The interconnects that I pick up at Frys for $5 work fine.

Very well said Daverz. 

[Harry]

I'm sure you hear differences. I have good hearing myself too, but when the differences are small enough why not forgot they even exist and just enjoy the music? If I worried about the sound of every cable I own I'd go nuts. If a millionary wants to use his/her money on pricy cables that ok, but most people struggle to buy a decent system! Money should be used wisely and efectively.

Just go to the Nordost site Poju, and learn something about cables there.

[71 dB]

Just go to the Nordost site Poju, and learn something about cables there.

Do you use Nordost cables Harry?

I wouldn't believe everything they say. Products are marketed in very unscientific ways.

With video signals the cable is much more critical because bandwidth is measured in MHz but audio signals are different. Even the upper limit of human hearing (20 kHz) isn't that high frequency for cables.

[Shrunk]

Not too long ago (and I can't remember where right now) I saw some sort of fancy wooden volume control knob that was intended to be a replacement for whatever existing knob one might have; supposedly it made some sort of great improvement, but I can't imagine what.

Here it is!

http://tinyurl.com/5t77h

To be honest, I'm not sure I would dismiss out of hand the possibility of the knob on a potentiometer affecting sound.  However, justifying a price of $485 (No, I didn't forget a decimal)  is another matter altogether.

[Harry]

Do you use Nordost cables Harry?

I wouldn't believe everything they say. Products are marketed in very unscientific ways.

Yes I use Nordost cables and interlinks.
I believe my ears my friend and for me they are unfailing.
That is my opinion, and no matter how many words you use, that won't changes anything.

[Heather Harrison]

Here is a website that lists a few dubious "audiophile" products.  The wooden volume knob is listed near the bottom.  Some of the links look interesting too.

http://www.ilikejam.dsl.pipex.com/audiophile.htm

Enjoy.

Heather

[Todd]

No mention of Shun Mook in this thread?  Have people already forgot their magical Mpingo discs (sort of like the rocks in this thread) and $1500 record clamp?  Good stuff.

I must disagree with cable naysayers though; different cables can and do make a difference in sound quality, though price doesn't always equate to performance.  And of course the changes are comparatively minor - it ain't like changing preamps or anything.  When I swapped out my old speaker cables for some new ones last year, the effect was immediately apparent and beneficial, particularly in the bass.  I leave scientific explanations as to how and why that does or does not happen to those who favor that approach, but what I heard was and is better.  That written, I won't be plunking down thousands for any cables.  Now, a hundred grand for a system - that I'd do if I had the dough, though it'd go for the hardware. 

[71 dB]

I am a sane person. For me it's clear that "forcing" yourself to be happy with a 99% perfect system is sane while paying a fortune for a 99.81 % perfect system is insanity. That's why I have proper, electrically and mechanically good and reliable cables in my system. Some audiophiles are totally crazy and unable to think about quality/price-efectivity. One more time: forget about the damn cables and put your money on room acoustics!

[Mark]

... forget about the damn cables and put your money on room acoustics!

There was an interesting article I once read about a guy who spent around £10K on cables trying to replicate the sound he'd heard from a system identical to his at a hifi show. In the end (and in despair), he altered his room acoustics - at a cost of about £800 - and immediately heard a marked improvement in sound reproduction.

[Shrunk]

Agreed that the room is arguably the most important "component" of an audio system.  Unfortunately, it is also usually the one you have least control over, especially if someone else has a say in the decor of said room (hence the audiophile term "SAF", i.e. "Spouse Acceptance Factor").