SPF: Ravel vs. Grieg vs. R. Strauss vs. Elgar vs. Rachmaninoff

[DavidW]

And I'd rank his above both of theirs, but that's mostly because they simply haven't resonated with me yet (I'm not a huge fan of that percussive style). My favorite concertos for the piano though, in the 20th century, are the two composed by Shostakovich.

Yeah that Shostakovich pair are great.  And another one I like is Schoenberg.

[Octo_Russ]

Better how? than Ravel's specifically, I mean? Just interested...

I can only speak personally here, Rachmaninov is certainly more barnstorming in the heavier music [Preludes Op23/2 & 5, Etudes Tableaux Op39/5], and yet so heart melting in others [Prelude Op32/5 and Moments Musicaux 5], a thrillingly virtuosity [Preludes Op23/7, Op32/12 and Moments Musicaux 4], and mysterious [Etudes Tableaux Op33/8 & Op39/2], lyrical and romantic, i like the heavy stuff, more profound.

Ravel on the other hand is more chimerical, shimmering, playful, dancing, evocative [Gaspard de la Nuit, Sonatine, Miroirs].

I like both, i'm glad i don't have to choose between them, i can choose both!, unless it's on a poll like this, and in my mind Rachmaninov wins.

[Octo_Russ]

Let me break it down elsewhere,

Best Symphony = Rachmaninov Symphony 2

Best Concerto = Rachmaninov Piano Concerto 2

Best Orchestral = Rachmaninov Isle Of The Dead

Best Chamber = Ravel String Quartet

Best Solo Piano = Rachmaninov 24 Preludes

Best Ballet = Ravel Daphnis et Chloe

Best Choral = Rachmaninov Vespers

Best Vocal = Ravel Sheherazade

Best Opera = hmmm both Composers are poor here

Final score Rachmaninov 5, Ravel 3

I certainly lean more towards Orchestral, Chamber, and Solo works [where Rachmaninov is strong], and less so on Vocal and Stage works [where Ravel is stronger], it's only my opinion, but i find Rachmaninov the greater Composer.

[Sid]

...Strauss's piano output is non existent...

Well, not literally, I saw a Naxos disc entirely devoted to his piano music. So it's out there somewhere, just not as much heard as the piano works of Grieg, Rachmaninov or Ravel...

[Luke]

Not really sure I can go along with some of those opinions, of course (plus the exceptional status given to 'symphony' is always problematic to me), but this bit....

Best Opera = hmmm both Composers are poor here

REALLY??   

[Dancing Divertimentian]

...i like the heavy stuff, more profound.

Relegating profundity to the land of the "heavy stuff" is a good way to lose perspective on just what profundity really is. Both Debussy and Ravel take "profound" beyond the romantically obvious and create pure bliss with their use of half-lights, contours, mists, and colors.

Rach's romantic obviousness seems a pale shadow (pun intended) in comparison.   

Ravel on the other hand is more chimerical, shimmering, playful, dancing, evocative [Gaspard de la Nuit, Sonatine, Miroirs].

All of which spells profound!

[Luke]

Nice post 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Thank you.

[Maciek]

Best Opera = hmmm both Composers are poor here

Ack!



(I fully agree with Luke that L'enfant is one of the finest operas of the 20th century. And Cato has been championing Rach's operas quite convincingly, though I don't know them well enough to form my own opinion.)

[Octo_Russ]

Like i said, i'm not big on Opera, i defer judgement between Rach and Rav to someone with more experience, and a greater love of the medium.

Relegating profundity to the land of the "heavy stuff" is a good way to lose perspective on just what profundity really is. Both Debussy and Ravel take "profound" beyond the romantically obvious and create pure bliss with their use of half-lights, contours, mists, and colors.

Rach's romantic obviousness seems a pale shadow (pun intended) in comparison.

You're right about profundity, i certainly don't find Ravel unprofound, i love his music too, just recently i listened to Rach's 2nd Symphony [not my most favourite Rach], i admit it's soppy and sentimental, big swooning lush melodies, Rach puts his heart on his sleeve, i guess i'm a big romantic at heart, and Rach's soundworld fits nicely into my psyche more than Ravel.

Rachmaninov seems to have mastered the art of 'tugging at your heart', Prelude Op32/5 and Moments Musicaux 5 are great examples, he melts my heart, and for that he gets my vote, Ravel seems to have a tendency to more deliciously excite my brain, very profound too!, and i love Ravel for that.

[karlhenning]

Yeah that Shostakovich pair are great.  And another one I like is Schoenberg.

The Schoenberg Opus 42 is on the BSO calendar again this season! Woot!

[DavidW]

I think I have a pet peeve: those that use profound to describe emotional depth when the word was created to describe intellectual depth.

[Brahmsian]

I think I have a pet peeve: those that use profound to describe emotional depth when the word was created to describe intellectual depth.

Your post is profound, David! 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Rachmaninov seems to have mastered the art of 'tugging at your heart', Prelude Op32/5 and Moments Musicaux 5 are great examples, he melts my heart, and for that he gets my vote, Ravel seems to have a tendency to more deliciously excite my brain, very profound too!, and i love Ravel for that.

As far as Ravel, the head/heart dichotomy doesn't exist to me. I get all the "heart-tugging" I could want from his music.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I think I have a pet peeve: those that use profound to describe emotional depth when the word was created to describe intellectual depth.

Gosh, I certainly didn't mean to step on anyone's toes...

But I've always thought of "profound" as more open-ended. Merriam-Webster's gives as alternatives: "characterized by intensity of feeling", "deeply felt", and "intense".

[DavidW]

Gosh, I certainly didn't mean to step on anyone's toes...

Not you I meant octo-russ.  When you take the emotional defn. then you could equate a stirring melodrama with depth if you wished, but that would be turning the word on it's head.  Similarly the Eric Anderson style of music critique is not one I associate with depth.  Just saying.

[Benji]

Similarly the Eric Anderson style of music critique is not one I associate with depth.  Just saying.

Wow, that's a blast from the past! 

[DavidW]

Haha yeah he kind of vanished.  Ah well he was nice enough to give me a Debussy dvd so he's swell in my book, I just didn't like the whole "pleasure is the law!" thing.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Not you I meant octo-russ.

*Whew*

[greg]

whole "Eric Anderson's pleasure is the law!" thing.

Yeah, me neither...