Difficulty of being yourself and happiness

[ibanezmonster]

Can't see the second picture, sorry.

Copy the image URL and paste into the address bar. Just the famous pic of him as an old man.

[karlhenning]

Lieder are, in the grand scheme of classical music, usually treated as a byway. Orchestral, chamber, instrumental, and opera tend to dominate the classical music world's attention.

Then again, there are such pieces as that little byway of 1912, name of Pierrot Lunaire.  At the time, a composer of some note called that byway "the solar plexus of 20^th-century music."

[Grazioso]

Can't see the second picture, sorry.

Brahms is so controversial, some secret government agency sneaked in after I posted the bearded Brahms photo and deleted it  I've fixed it, but if it disappears again and I don't post with 24 hours, you'll find me in the gulag, surviving on a diet of red hedgehog.

[Grazioso]

EDIT: It is also the one vocal genre when the text is often of the highest litterary calibre --- which can't be said of opera, for instance.

Amen to that. It's interesting to see how great composers respond to top-flight poetry (Goethe, Heine, et al.) instead of merely functional texts. Of course, the languages involved can be a barrier to some. I doubt I'd enjoy many Schubert or Schumann Lieder as much if I didn't know German. Like you say, it's a subtle art form, and you need to be able to appreciate the text, I think.

[Henk]

What's controversial about them, I wonder? 

Brahms and Mahler are favourite composers by some people. Other people can't understand this.

Debussy is also controversial. We should take Poulenc instead. What do you think?

[Grazioso]

Brahms and Mahler are favourite composers by some people. Other people can't understand this.

Debussy is also controversial. We should take Poulenc instead. What do you think?

If you're talking about what Naxos should (re)record, see the responses above. As for which composer is controversial in the classical music world, I don't think any you listed would qualify. They're all the definition of mainstream respectability, even though, of course, not everyone loves their work. Now a composer like Wagner is controversial in some circles because of his personality, racial views, appropriation by the Nazis, etc.--i.e., controversial for extra-musical matters.

[Henk]

I think I've been crystal clear . The word "controversial" sounds a little bit provocative. But it gives the right sense of meaning. We have to get rid of thinking that taste is something to be respected as some kind of value. It doesn't bring us any further.

Henk 

[Guido]

I wasn't very keen on lieder till I saw Ian Bostridge singing Winterreise on youtube --- a decade ago. Then I bought the Brilliant Classics Schubert Lieder box and in a matter of days I was completely hooked. IMO this is perhaps the most underrated, yet the most intimate classical music genre. It is also the most difficult: there is no place for gimmicks or pyrotechnics, there is nothing to hide behind. Just a voice and a piano; the slightest error, the tiniest desyncronization ruins it for good. But when the fusion between the two is complete, then Heavens open up.

EDIT: It is also the one vocal genre when the text is often of the highest litterary calibre --- which can't be said of opera, for instance.

Youtube has only existed since 2005.

[Florestan]

Youtube has only existed since 2005.

You're right. Well, I was convinced it was older.   

Then I must have seen / heard him elsewhere. It was 2001 or 2002, I think.

[Henk]

I shall contact Naxos this week I try.

Henk

[71 dB]

I can't discuss about music the way I want because most people are so different but I can write what I think. Being yourself is one key element on happiness. I should never forget that.

Okay, I have now received some Naxos discs of Beethoven's and Schubert's music. These CDs are very cheap costing me only 2 - 4 euros each delivered. Beethoven has impressed me lately. He has been number 10 on my top 10 composers but is likely to take a higher position. Earlier I found Beethoven a clichéd, uninteresting and even overrated composer. I explored less known composers instead but now I feel differently. Exploring Beethoven has become interesting. 

Naxos 8.550294 contains Piano Sonatas Nos. 14, 21 and 23 played by Jenö Jandó. Sonata No. 23 is impressive. It's third movement is rhythmically very modern, it's almost rock music played on piano.  I'd like to have Beethoven's Piano Sonatas on BIS played by Brautigam but I have only Volumes 1 and 8. These SACDs sound absolutely awesome on my multichannel system and I also like fortepiano's sound and Brautigam's playing. However, these discs cost a fortune so I explore more Beethoven on Naxos which are good enough if not awesome like BIS releases. Volume 8 (BIS) containing Sonatas 28, 30, 31 and 32 was very impressive. The third movement of Sonata 31 with it's fuga is insanely good.

Naxos 8.553478 has Symphony No. 9 conducted by Béla Drahos. This is a very very enjoyable performance! It doesn't exaggerate Beethoven's music. It is down the earth just the right way. I like it much more than RLPO/MacKerras. This recording makes Beethoven's orchestration work for me.

Naxos 8.550283 contains Violin Sonatas 5 and 9. Wow, these are great works! Over 10 years ago I was into Violin Sonatas (especially those of Fauré) but it never occurred to me I could explore Beethoven. I have had Naxos 8.550285 containing Sonatas 4 & 10 for a long time but I haven't played it as much as it deserves. I must get the rest of Beethoven's Violin Sonatas. 

Naxos 8.553093 contains Schubert's Symphonies 1 & 2 (Failoni Orchestra/Michael Halász). These are enjoyable works having a classical foundation but with romantic ideas. Amazing that Schubert was only 15-16 when composing these.

Naxos 8.550259 contains Moments Musicaux + Three Piano Pieces D. 946 (Jenö Jandó playing). I didn't find this disc (£0.01 + shipping  ) (musically) very interesting but I will listen to it more. I got interested about Schubert's piano music after hearing Wanderer Fantasie on radio some time ago. I borrowed Pollini's WF and Sonata D 845 (DG) from an older friend but I don't like the disc. The piano is recorded badly (dry, dull sound) and Pollini's playing doesn't work for me here. Earlier I borrowed a Ondine disc from him containing Sonatas 4 & 15 played by Ralf Gothoni who this friend claims to know personally. That disc was excellent. Great playing and awesome sound quality. Unfortunately these old Ondine CD's are hard to buy even here in Finland. Gothoni seems to have recorded Wanderer Fantaisie too! Anyway, I have ordered Naxos disc of WF and Sonatas D 537 and D 664 (8.550846) but it hasn't arrived yet.

This is my way taking an interest in classical music. It seems to be very different from what other people do but it's me and I have to keep it that way in order to be a balanced happy person.

[DavidRoss]

That's wonderful news, Poju, that you're exploring and enjoying Beethoven's music.  And how nice that you've discovered his violin sonatas and piano sonatas are "insanely good!"  The more you explore, the more I think you'll find to enjoy and admire in his music.  I'll be interested to hear your response to the later quartets!

Explore away!

[71 dB]

I'll be interested to hear your response to the later quartets!

Explore away!

As a matter of fact the String Quartets are the works I have explored many years ago. I admire them a lot and I consider Beethoven the greatest composer of String Quartets. I have mentioned that many times on this forum. Missa Solemnis and the 6th symphony have been my favorites for long. Somehow I have been ignoring his solo piano works as well as other chamber music until recently. Maybe it's the curse of the moonlight sonata giving me that "cliché" -feeling?