Violin Babes

[Todd]

Would we have ever heard of her if todays standards applied in 1978 when she started?

If she had someone with Karajan's pull backing her, probably.

[Scarpia]

I take your point, but do you have any hard data to back that supposition?

Find me a recording released featuring an unattractive female violinist.

[Todd]

Find me a recording released featuring an unattractive female violinist.

It's perhaps a bit rude to do this, but Rachel Barton is not going to win any beauty contests.

[Grazioso]

I guess a related question is this: Is this an entirely new phenomenon?  Was there no hint of this in decades and centuries past?  Would it be possible to divine a slightly easier road for the more beautiful soprano or pianist, for instance?

When have good looks hurt someone's chances in an entertainment field?

[Grazioso]

Find me a recording released featuring an unattractive female violinist.

I can, but I'm not going to be cruel to the lady in question.

[Gurn Blanston]

Find me a recording released featuring an unattractive female violinist.

One of my favorites is no raving beauty:


Monica Huggett

and not from age either. I'll take her playing over many...

[Scarpia]

One of my favorites is no raving beauty:


Monica Huggett

and not from age either. I'll take her playing over many...

Yes, but she got her start a while back before the alleged trend took root, and she is in the HIP sub-catagory, where the star-performer culture is less pronounced. 

Clearly anecdotal evidence will get us nowhere.  The question can only be answered by comparing attractiveness of violinists making classical recordings to the general population.   And that is not practical.

[MishaK]

The accusations of sexism are completely right. It is not surprising in a sense that there are vastly more female violinists and pianists getting big recording contracts with sexy pictures on the covers than there are male artists. Only few of those females really have the artisitic chops to sustain a long term career. I'd almost go as far as saying that the sexiness of the photo is inversely proportional to the quality of the playing. Case in point: compare the rather classy and comparatively conservative photos of Hahn with the, as someone here put it, "inviting" pictures of Steinbacher. I've heard both of them live and Steinbacher is no Hahn by a long shot. I'll be surprised if any major orchestra continues to invite her in twenty years' time. Also, there is the vast discrepancy often between the sexiness of a performer in a glamor shot and the actual article on stage. Steinbacher, again, is a rather bland looking smallish girl in person. Anne Akiko Meyers looks nice in that photo posted above, while in person she is a rather large, broad-shouldered hunky woman who would be kind of scary to encounter in a park at night (at least for a skinny guy like me), though she is personally quite charming, engaging and humorous. The marketing has become so bad that I have started to steer away from "too-sexy" performers in anticipation of substandard musicianship. E.g. I have not yet listened to anything by Nicola Benedetti. The covers are too close to the fuzzy border between Vogue magazine, Bond-girl and softporn. I.e. someone is trying too hard to sell me something that I should want to buy for other reasons. Another downside of this sexism is that talented female musicians who don't have the requisite photogenic body get short shrift. Case in point: Rachel Barton Pine, who without a hideously gruesome encounter with a commuter train wouldn't have lost a leg, gotten various infections and gained a few pounds in the process. Musically, she is leagues above a number of the violin chicks listed in this thread. Also, Chloe Hanslip, who is also not nearly as sexy or glamorous as the other girls in this thread, but recorded a reference-worthy performance of the Bruch. You don't hear much about her these days either. Re: the option to opt out, is it really an option to opt out of that kind of marketing or aren't you in effect opting out of your career by not agreeing to subject yourself to the sexist marketing? I often wonder what happened to Naida Cole, a reasonably talented and promising pianist by the sounds of her Ravel album (it takes some balls to debut with Gaspard!), which likewise featured oodles of gratuitous glam shots. Supposedly she left the performing stage for a career in medicine. I can't help but wonder whether the sexualization of the female performer had something to do with that.

[Mirror Image]

Steinbacher is no Hahn by a long shot.

Not many are. In fact, I would go so far to say that Hahn is one of the finest violinists of her generation and looks have nothing to do with it. She has identifiable sound and is a world-class virtuoso. I own all of her recordings except for her Bach recordings, which as many know how I feel about Bach on here, so I won't launch into that. She is simply an engaging musical personality with a genuine love and seriousness for the music she plays.

[Mirror Image]

To further Mensch's point, Viktoria Mullova isn't an attractive woman at all (to me), but she is an amazing violinist with one of the most pure tones I've ever heard from the violin.

[MishaK]

Not many are. In fact, I would go so far to say that Hahn is one of the finest violinists of her generation and looks have nothing to do with it. She has identifiable sound and is a world-class virtuoso. I own all of her recordings except for her Bach recordings, which as many know how I feel about Bach on here, so I won't launch into that. She is simply an engaging musical personality with a genuine love and seriousness for the music she plays.

Oh, no question. She is *the* towering über-violinist of her generation. I must have missed those threads about your Bach preferences, but while her Bach concertos and the stuff with singers are a mixed bag, I'd have to say her debut album with Bach Partitas and Sonatas is one of the greatest solo violin recordings of all time. Hahn's major trademark are her unbelievably clean and articulated doublestops. Nobody, absolutely nobody, has doublestops like she does. It's like there are two independent violinists on stage anytime she's playing on two strings. You're really missing something if you haven't heard her Chaconne.

[Mirror Image]

Oh, no question. She is *the* towering über-violinist of her generation. I must have missed those threads about your Bach preferences, but while her Bach concertos and the stuff with singers are a mixed bag, I'd have to say her debut album with Bach Partitas and Sonatas is one of the greatest solo violin recordings of all time. Hahn's major trademark are her unbelievably clean and articulated doublestops. Nobody, absolutely nobody, has doublestops like she does. It's like there are two independent violinists on stage anytime she's playing on two strings. You're really missing something if you haven't heard her Chaconne.

I guess I should have made myself clearer, I don't like Bach. This is why I haven't heard her Bach recordings. I would, however, like to hear her tackle some Tartini or Vivaldi though. Even though I think she shines in 20th Century and contemporary repertoire, I think she would do well in Baroque concerti particularly, like mentioned, Italian ones.

[bhodges]

Oh, no question. She is *the* towering über-violinist of her generation.

I am inclined to agree with you!

--Bruce

[DavidRoss]

Huh?  (addressed to no one in particular)

Great beauty and great talent together hardly equal great commercial success.  Witness Leila Josefowicz and Aikiko Suwanai--and they both had the backing of a major label. 

On the other hand, great talent together with adequate drive and preparation for a commercial career will suffice, even if the fiddler in question has no more superficial sex appeal than a tin of biscuits.  Witness Hilary Hahn.

Also, the rise of the violin babes has hardly come at the expense of the violin dudes.  Shaham, Tetzlaff, Carmignola, Bell, Kavakos, Repin, Zehetmair, Vengerov, Kremer, Hope, Ehnes, Capuçon, et al have not been handicapped by their lack of feminine sex appeal.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of some self-righteous hypocrites beating up men for our hard-wired appreciation of female beauty.  If anything, we're the ones being exploited by having our natural drives used against us for commercial purposes by women who trade on their looks.

[MishaK]

Great beauty and great talent together hardly equal great commercial success.  Witness Leila Josefowicz and Aikiko Suwanai--and they both had the backing of a major label. 

Josefowicz still has a very active career, I'm not sure on what you base your judgment of lack of commercial success. Suwanai had rather limited talent from what I have heard.

On the other hand, great talent together with adequate drive and preparation for a commercial career will suffice, even if the fiddler in question has no more superficial sex appeal than a tin of biscuits.  Witness Hilary Hahn.

Yet, the CD covers invariably feature sexed-up pictures. Why, if, as you say, it's not necessary? And, at the very last Sarge and I would disagree with you on her appeal. I for one prefer natural beauty and mystique, sans make up, to fashion model fakeness.

Also, the rise of the violin babes has hardly come at the expense of the violin dudes.  Shaham, Tetzlaff, Carmignola, Bell, Kavakos, Repin, Zehetmair, Vengerov, Kremer, Hope, Ehnes, Capuçon, et al have not been handicapped by their lack of feminine sex appeal.

You're lumping together violinists of several different generations. Zehetmair, Tetzlaff, Shaham, Repin and Vengerov have no business being in that list and Kremer is a senior citizen by now. The fact that you have to include different generations in order to come up with a similar number of males shows that the basic argument has some truth in it. If you add up just the 20-35 year olds that we've been talking about here, then there is a preponderance of attractive women.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of some self-righteous hypocrites beating up men for our hard-wired appreciation of female beauty.  If anything, we're the ones being exploited by having our natural drives used against us for commercial purposes by women who trade on their looks.

Oh, yes, we are the victims! You poor thing! That's so masculine of you to whine about your "victimization".   

PS: if you had read what I actually wrote, instead of superimposing your political dogma, you would have seen that I wasn't "beating up men for our hard-wired appreciation of female beauty", but rather was beating up the music industry for focusing on sex appeal rather than musical qualities precisely in order to exploit our "hard-wired" appreciation for their profit.

[karlhenning]

Personally, I'm sick and tired of some self-righteous hypocrites beating up men for our hard-wired appreciation of female beauty.

That would be bad.

It does seem clear that this trend in the industry is an hommage to Pavlov.

[ibanezmonster]

Personally, I'm sick and tired of some self-righteous hypocrites beating up men for our hard-wired appreciation of female beauty.  If anything, we're the ones being exploited by having our natural drives used against us for commercial purposes by women who trade on their looks.

Oh, yes, we are the victims! You poor thing! That's so masculine of you to whine about your "victimization".   

PS: if you had read what I actually wrote, instead of superimposing your political dogma, you would have seen that I wasn't "beating up men for our hard-wired appreciation of female beauty", but rather was beating up the music industry for focusing on sex appeal rather than musical qualities precisely in order to exploit our "hard-wired" appreciation for their profit.

Wait... I agree with both of these. That doesn't make sense... 

[Grazioso]

That would be bad.

It does seem clear that this trend in the industry is an hommage to Pavlov.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AlFkbElh44#t=6m16s

Yet, the CD covers invariably feature sexed-up pictures. Why, if, as you say, it's not necessary? And, at the very last Sarge and I would disagree with you on her appeal. I for one prefer natural beauty and mystique, sans make up, to fashion model fakeness.

Invariably? These are sexed-up? I don't see anything playing up sexuality in these:




I would say images like these of pop performers are rather more "sexed up," though still all quite tame by today's standards:

PS: if you had read what I actually wrote, instead of superimposing your political dogma, you would have seen that I wasn't "beating up men for our hard-wired appreciation of female beauty", but rather was beating up the music industry for focusing on sex appeal rather than musical qualities precisely in order to exploit our "hard-wired" appreciation for their profit.

Is there any hard evidence that the marketing gurus in the classical music industry are actually succeeding on that front? Any data that shows consumers really do purchase more classical violin CD's with a babe on the cover?

Btw, for those painting this as a newish phenomenon, look at the old album covers of Martha Argerich. No one was shy about presenting her good looks. A pianist, true, but the point stands.

[MishaK]

Wait... I agree with both of these. That doesn't make sense... 

It does. He attacked a straw man, ergo there is no direct contradiction. 

Invariably? These are sexed-up? I don't see anything playing up sexuality in these:

Fair enough, but you did pick the tamest ones.

Is there any hard evidence that the marketing gurus in the classical music industry are actually succeeding on that front? Any data that shows consumers really do purchase more classical violin CD's with a babe on the cover?

Much in the classical music marketing business is not exactly evidence based, largely because nobody has the money to spend on meaningful surveys of consumer behavior, which is in any case difficult because we classical CD buyers are a very diverse bunch.

Btw, for those painting this as a newish phenomenon, look at the old album covers of Martha Argerich. No one was shy about presenting her good looks. A pianist, true, but the point stands.

Yes, but those covers tended to focus on her face, not bewbs or legs.  But then again, she was one of the first young superstars of the sixties and seventies. The sexualization of performers certainly started then.

[Grazioso]

Fair enough, but you did pick the tamest ones.

I think I actually picked the majority of them Seriously, the two you choose seem to be exceptions to the rule; check out her other album covers that neither of us posted: all very demure.

Much in the classical music marketing business is not exactly evidence based, largely because nobody has the money to spend on meaningful surveys of consumer behavior, which is in any case difficult because we classical CD buyers are a very diverse bunch.

The reason I ask is because it seems like it's just a knee-jerk, superfluous reaction on their part. Yes, sex sells, generally speaking, but not always. I find it hard to believe there are a bunch of us classical fans, no matter how horny , that buy their albums based on the cover.

Btw, to inject some data (albeit not overly scientific) into the discussion, I browsed through Amazon's returns for "violin concerto," to get discs featuring solo violinists, sorted by release date to move the bias from a handful of big stars that conveniently fit an argument. Of the covers featuring a photo of a female artist, you find:






I think only the Benedetti image could reasonably be classified as intentionally sultry or sexy.