Media Meltdown: NPR bests Charlie Sheen

[Mirror Image]

Who says I need "authority"? The whole point is to challenge authority. And who are you to be presumptuous about what I do or don't do about major issues of the day outside of this forum?

What are you doing right now that makes a difference in the world? What do you do on the outside that makes a difference in our world? You continue to talk in circles and nothing substantial has yet been said by you. You're no better than a lying politician who will say what people want to hear just to get a vote.

[Todd]

By the way, I am an optimist.

It appears that English comprehension is not your strongest suit. 

(You do know that when you point out your own supposedly clever word play, you rather weaken your retort.  If not, it's a free lesson for the day.  I guess that counts as a positive thing I bring to this 'net community.)

[MishaK]

What are you doing right now that makes a difference in the world? What do you do on the outside that makes a difference in our world? You continue to talk in circles and nothing substantial has yet been said by you. You're no better than a lying politician who will say what people want to hear just to get a vote.

I am not a politician and I don't need anyone's vote. Everything we do makes a difference, if in the case of some things only in the aggregate. The difference between you and me is that I am aware of the choices I make and the effects they have on others, or at least I try my best to attain that awareness, while you conveniently pretend that your actions have no effects on others and therefore just continue living as you do, believing yourself powerless.

[DavidRoss]

Actually, in Europe gas prices are market PLUS gasoline tax (which pays for, among other things, public transport and alternative energy funding). Also, effective tax rates in Europe aren't that much dramatically higher when you take into account that in the US you also pay state and sometimes local taxes, plus the US has more homeowners who pay real estate taxes. Having lived on both sides of the pond, I never perceived the German tax rates to be vastly worse than livingin NY and paying federal, state and local taxes, or now as a homowner in Illinois paying federal, state and real estate taxes. The difference though is that for my taxes in Germany I did get vastly better and more efficient public services.  Not to mention publicly funded orchestras and opera houses.

But, of course, German taxpayers are not paying for the Pax Americana.  Just saying.

And thank you for explaining to those who don't know better that true tax rates in the U.S. are quite high.  By the time you add up state and federal income taxes, social security taxes, medicare and disability taxes, "employer contributions," sales tax, property tax, gasoline tax, various excise taxes, and so on, a modest middle-class family is paying about 50% in taxes.

But more taxpayers are beginning to understand this, to understand where the money goes, and to see how little they get in return, and they're getting pretty unhappy about it.  THAT is what underlies the Tea Party movement, which was an immediate and direct response the Obama-Pelosi-Reid's massive expansion of government signaled by the so-called "stimulus bill."  It has nothing to do with racism except in the minds of vicious media propagandists (see Journolist) seeking to discredit a movement that threatens the status quo they love so much.

[DavidRoss]

We don't even own a couch!

Where do you sleep when Maria's really pissed off at you?

[DavidRoss]

I'm seriously surprised this thread isn't locked by now considering that it was a meaningless thread to begin with. The moderators are slacking off!

No one is forcing you to participate.  And all in all this discussion has been surprisingly civil.  I think I'm the one whose been most "attacked," and even that has been milder and less dogmatic than frequently seen on other threads.

[karlhenning]

Where do you sleep when Maria's really pissed off at you?

It's never happened, though I consider that more to her credit than to mine.

[Brian]

Ack?  Why is it that because I hold "liberals" to the same standards I hold conservatives, "liberals" think I must be a conservative (as if that's the only reason anyone could possibly find fault with "liberal" ideology or Democratic Party officials and policies)?

Sorry, friend.  Although to be fair to myself...

I think government officials who subvert the public interest in service to powerful corporate interests should be drawn and quartered,

...drawing and quartering seems a fairly conservative punishment style! 

[karlhenning]

(* chortle *)

[DavidRoss]

...drawing and quartering seems a fairly conservative punishment style! 

Whoops!  I meant "should be selected to honor our glorious leader by serving indefinitely in re-education camp #3642!"

[Brian]

By the way, I am an optimist. I'm optimistic about my own life, my family's life, I pray things will get better. Whatever happens to me, I still have what matters in this life: my family, my friends, and my love of music. What do you have? What gets you out of the bed everyday? What motivates you? What positive thing to you bring to people's lives in your community?

I suppose the question you're asking here is, "When you have family and friends, why should you care about stuff happening elsewhere?" The reason I do is that I feel connected to, or empathy with, people the world over; when I say I'm an optimist, it's not just about this room and classes and building a resume and getting a job.

Your optimism is peculiar. In order to protect it, or shelter it, you tune out all the news and current events. Isn't that a bit like someone who's so afraid of losing faith they never leave church? I know that there are about 1,000 different ways for the current Middle East situation to go direly wrong, but you know, I can't help getting excited about it.

Whoops!  I meant "should be selected to honor our glorious leader by serving indefinitely in re-education camp #3642!"

Or, "should be sent to a therapy circle"...



"That's very interesting, Mr. ...um..."
"Evil. Doctor Evil."

[Scarpia]

As a matter of fact, one of the single greatest moments in the history of environmentalism was when Mirror Image's employer, single-handedly dictated that all deodorants would be sold without the little cardboard boxes they used to be cased in - a corporate demand to suppliers which has saved something like 4 zillion tons of waste.* Read The Wal-Mart Effect by Charles Fishman. 

*It's either 4 million, 400 million, or 4 billion, and I forget which.

That's a bit peculiar, since "The Effect" is mostly concerned with the destructive influence of edited, which has driven an emphasis on low price to the exclusion of all other attributes of a product.  The worry is that people ultimately pay more because they are encouraged to buy low-cost products which have extremely short life-spans rather than more expensive products that would serve them better.

[MishaK]

But, of course, German taxpayers are not paying for the Pax Americana.  Just saying.

Query why  Americans should? We're getting a pretty raw deal for it. Unsustainable military spending on remote bases, open ended wars that accomplish nothing positive, propping up (now deposed) dictators in the middle east with overgenerous military aid, funding warlords who end up terrorist leaders who bomb us, etc. Really well placed investment that was.... 

And thank you for explaining to those who don't know better that true tax rates in the U.S. are quite high.  By the time you add up state and federal income taxes, *social security taxes, medicare and disability taxes*, "employer contributions," sales tax, property tax, gasoline tax, various excise taxes, and so on, a modest middle-class family is paying about 50% in taxes.

Oy vey. Social security and medicare is included in your income tax bill. That isn't a separate item. Employer contributions also exist in Europe, often at higher rates, so that isn't a meaningful difference. Gasoline taxes are much higher in Europe, so also a bad comparison. A "modest middle-class family" is not affected by "various excise taxes" unless they're alcoholics or chainsmokers.

But more taxpayers are beginning to understand this, to understand where the money goes, and to see how little they get in return, and they're getting pretty unhappy about it.  THAT is what underlies the Tea Party movement, which was an immediate and direct response the Obama-Pelosi-Reid's massive expansion of government signaled by the so-called "stimulus bill."  It has nothing to do with racism except in the minds of vicious media propagandists (see Journolist) seeking to discredit a movement that threatens the status quo they love so much.

I don't know how you can write crap like that and expect anyone here to believe that you're thinking for yourself and not regurgitating Tea Party talking points. You do realize that "Obama-Pelosi-Reid's" stimulus included considerable tax cuts for everyone, right?

It's pretty dumb to complain about getting a raw deal from govenmernt and seeing the only solution in "reducing" government and cutting taxes, instead of having a serious discussion of how to improve government services so that we no longer have to live in a country with collapsing bridges and otherwise third world infrastructure. Defunding NPR isn't going to fix that and the private sector isn't about to step up either.

As a matter of fact, one of the single greatest moments in the history of environmentalism was when Mirror Image's employer, single-handedly dictated that all deodorants would be sold without the little cardboard boxes they used to be cased in - a corporate demand to suppliers which has saved something like 4 zillion tons of waste.* Read The Effect by Charles Fishman. 

*It's either 4 million, 400 million, or 4 billion, and I forget which.

That's a bit peculiar, since "The Effect" is mostly concerned with the destructive influence of EDITED, which has driven an emphasis on low price to the exclusion of all other attributes of a product.  The worry is that people ultimately pay more because they are encouraged to buy low-cost products which have extremely short life-spans rather than more expensive products that would serve them better.

Correct.

[Brian]

That's a bit peculiar, since "The Effect" is mostly concerned with the destructive influence of which has driven an emphasis on low price to the exclusion of all other attributes of a product.

I thought the book was remarkable because it was so meticulous about presenting the facts and then stepped out of the way, for the most part, to allow the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. Thus we see a lot of the damage does - like the chapter on the independent lawn mower companies - and some of the benefits, too. It was a nuanced picture.

[Scarpia]

I thought the book was remarkable because it was so meticulous about presenting the facts and then stepped out of the way, for the most part, to allow the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. Thus we see a lot of the damage Walmart does - like the chapter on the independent lawn mower companies - and some of the benefits, too. It was a nuanced picture.

To attribute the effect entirely to edit would be a mistake, it is a bigger trend in retailing also related to globalization.  Originally edit prided itself on buying American, which is no longer the case.  There is some irony in the fact that edit makes it possible for people of limited means to afford things they normally would have difficulty affording, but in the grand scheme of things also tends to undercut the jobs that unskilled people depend on. 

I can relate to the lawnmower thing.  My father had a reel mower that had been passed down from my grandfather.  I got a reel mower, which lasted two years before it became unusable.   However, it didn't come from edit, but home depot, which did not supply any products to maintain it on their web site or in the retail store.

[Brian]

There is some irony in the fact that Walmart makes it possible for people of limited means to afford things they normally would have difficulty affording, but in the grand scheme of things also tends to undercut the jobs that unskilled people depend on. 

That is definitely true.   

[DavidRoss]

Query why  Americans should? We're getting a pretty raw deal for it. Unsustainable military spending on remote bases, open ended wars that accomplish nothing positive, propping up (now deposed) dictators in the middle east with overgenerous military aid, funding warlords who end up terrorist leaders who bomb us, etc. Really well placed investment that was.... 

You'd have to ask someone who thinks the U.S. should.  I never suggested such a thing, and even clarified that with "just saying."

Oy vey. Social security and medicare is included in your income tax bill. That isn't a separate item. Employer contributions also exist in Europe, often at higher rates, so that isn't a meaningful difference. Gasoline taxes are much higher in Europe, so also a bad comparison. A "modest middle-class family" is not affected by "various excise taxes" unless they're alcoholics or chainsmokers.

Uh, no, wrong again (don't you ever get tired of this?).  Social Security and Medicare are separate from income taxes, though wage earners will find them all deducted from their earnings as "payroll taxes."  Here, for instance, is a simplified sample payroll tax worksheet an employer might use: http://www.samplewords.com/weekly-payroll-tax-worksheet/
Federal withholding goes to pay federal income tax.  State withholding goes to state income taxes. Employee and employer contributions for Medicare and Social Security taxes go to FICA. 

I don't know whom the rest of your comments here are directed to as they have nothing to do with my post which had nothing to do with such comparisons with Europe.

I don't know how you can write crap like that and expect anyone here to believe that you're thinking for yourself and not regurgitating Tea Party talking points. You do realize that "Obama-Pelosi-Reid's" stimulus included considerable tax cuts for everyone, right?

This is just another unfounded personal attack. 

It's pretty dumb to complain about getting a raw deal from govenmernt and seeing the only solution in "reducing" government and cutting taxes, instead of having a serious discussion of how to improve government services so that we no longer have to live in a country with collapsing bridges and otherwise third world infrastructure. Defunding NPR isn't going to fix that and the private sector isn't about to step up either.

And this is another instance of something that's presented as a response to my post, but which does not address anything I said.

Frankly, I think I've exceeded the requirements of civility and hope you will forgive me if I decline to continue going over the same ground with you again and again.

Have a nice day!

[MishaK]

You'd have to ask someone who thinks the U.S. should.  I never suggested such a thing, and even clarified that with "just saying."

Saying "just saying" doesn't really clarify anything. But thanks for clarifying now. Maybe you should try being clearer the first time around. 

Uh, no, wrong again (don't you ever get tired of this?).  Social Security and Medicare are separate from income taxes, though wage earners will find them all deducted from their earnings as "payroll taxes."  Here, for instance, is a simplified sample payroll tax worksheet an employer might use: http://www.samplewords.com/weekly-payroll-tax-worksheet/
Federal withholding goes to pay federal income tax.  State withholding goes to state income taxes. Employee and employer contributions for Medicare and Social Security taxes go to FICA. 

Sorry, I misspoke. Point being that SS and Medicare taxes are not an additional bill for your proverbial middle class family that somehow gets added on top of all the taxes they already pay. 

I don't know whom the rest of your comments here are directed to as they have nothing to do with my post which had nothing to do with such comparisons with Europe.

The part of your post I quoted was in direct response to a part of a post of mine which you quoted which was about comparisons with Europe. If you interject yourself into a debate and even quote the relevant material, you can't just complain that when I continue in the same vein it is suddenly supposedly not relevent.

This is just another unfounded personal attack. 

Reminding you that Obama lowered income and payroll taxes is an "unfounded personal attack"?

And this is another instance of something that's presented as a response to my post, but which does not address anything I said.

You know, maybe the problem is that you're regurgitating Tea Party talking points instead of sepaking for yourself. If you write:

THAT is what underlies the Tea Party movement, which was an immediate and direct response the Obama-Pelosi-Reid's massive expansion of government signaled by the so-called "stimulus bill." 

then it seems that you are opposed to what you call a "massive expansion of government". Your statements all over this forum and in this thread give the impression that you dislike taxes and government as such, not that you believe that government could be improved and made more efficient, let alone that sometimes tax increases might be helpful. If that is not the case, please clarify.

[Brian]

Thanks for telling everybody where I work. I have never disclosed my occupation with anyone here, but now people know thanks to you. I appreciate you making my business everyone else's. I thought you had more respect for my privacy than that, but I guess I was wrong.

I'm sorry, dude. No, really: I'm sorry. I didn't know that was hidden, since it was floating around in my brain anyway. People here have known I worked there owing to my varied allusions about my employment there since 2007, and I've never experienced any kind of negative blowback or condescension or attacks because of it.

If it's any consolation, I don't know what you actually do. For all we know you could be the eye doctor... 

[MishaK]

I'm sorry, dude. No, really: I'm sorry. I didn't know that was hidden, since it was floating around in my brain anyway. People here have known I worked there owing to my varied allusions about my employment there since 2007, and I've never experienced any kind of negative blowback or condescension or attacks because of it.

And I didn't want to seem condescending about it either. Apologies if it sounded that way. I just wasn't sure whether Brian was pulling our collective leg.