GMG Consensus: Who was the greatest composer of the 20th century?

[Christo]

In hindsight, the composer of the past century has been Bach.

[Christo]

Indeed. But his influence has been larger than any other composer's.

[Philoctetes]

Indeed. But his influence has been larger than any other composer's.

Well first how do you even measure that, and second that doesn't negate James's point.

[starrynight]

Beware consensus, it's often just pooled ignorance

Absolutely, I can use my own ears to decide which composers I find 'great'.

[Christo]

Well first how do you even measure that, and second that doesn't negate James's point.

So. This topic is about measuring? (And for readers for whom "James' point" isn't obvious?)   

[starrynight]

Maybe unprovable is a better word than measuring then?

[bigshot]

1) Ives
2) Stravinsky
3) Rachmaninov

In general, Jazz is more important to the 20th century than classical music, but of Ellington's works, I think his popular songs are much more important than his more serious suites.

[Philoctetes]

So. This topic is about measuring?

No, but you said that Bach had the most influence, which entails some sort of measurement.

[Karl Henning]

Absolutely, I can use my own ears to decide which composers I find 'great'.

But even in saying that, you cast great in scare-quotes — denoting that you are using that adjective as code for what [ I ] like.

[DavidRoss]

Who was the greatest composer of the 20th Century?  We'll know once 20th Century music has been digested in an historical context and a consensus has formed ... say in another hundred years or so, if Western civilization lasts that long.

My choice is an unpopular one and few really give a damn what anyone else thinks, anyway!

[DavidRoss]

But even in saying that, you cast great in scare-quotes — denoting that you are using that adjective as code for what [ I ] like.

Yep. Good morning, Karl!

[DavidW]

Nice to see you back Dave!

[Karl Henning]

Good morrow, Dave!

[Karl Henning]

In general, Jazz is more important to the 20th century than classical music [....]

What a fascinating assertion!

How would you make the case?

[DavidRoss]

Nice to see you back Dave!

Thank you, sir!

[johnshade]

the consensus?  well, there is no single "one" - but Stravinsky and Bartok and Schoenberg made the biggest waves in invention, and Bartok is a towering figure in music

A vote for the "towering figure in music" -- Bela Bartok.

JS

[eyeresist]

What a fascinating assertion!

How would you make the case?

Off the top of my head, and bear in mind this is purely academic, I'd say Jazz was the most popular and the most broadly influential music of the first half of the century, and the root of all the popular music developments of the second half (and plenty of the unpopular ones too). I attribute a large part of its popularity to the way it rose "naturally" as a folk idiom, rather than being the intellectual construct of an individual.

[starrynight]

But even in saying that, you cast great in scare-quotes — denoting that you are using that adjective as code for what [ I ] like.

Yeh, I don't like the use of the word great much.  The main question for me I suppose is whether it is actually any use to me in ranking things to such a fine degree.  I don't think there really is.  Concentration on a greatest list is probably more limiting potentially with both listening and discussion.

[Elnimio]

Hindemith

[DaveF]

There's an oft-quoted review of the Aeolian Quartet's complete Haydn box, to the effect that the review would happily listen to nothing else for a whole year and not feel he was missing out on anything, such is Haydn's range and comprehensiveness.  I was thinking of this when holding a similarly-sized box of complete works - the 22CD "Works of Igor Stravinsky".  If that's a test of greatness - i.e. the composer whose complete works you would take to a desert island and not get bored - then it's Stravinsky.

DF