Conducting Opera, Ballet, Symphony

[suzyq]

A friend of mine and I were dicussing James Levine leaving the  Boston Symphony and cutting back on his
schedule at the Metropolitan Opera.

Somehow the subject came up about conducting and if there were differences in conducting  Opera, Ballet or
a Symphony Orchestra.

I think there must be a difference but neither of us have enough knowledge and so is there a difference?

Thanks for helping us.

[Mirror Image]

A friend of mine and I were dicussing James Levine leaving the  Boston Symphony and cutting back on his
schedule at the Metropolitan Opera.

Somehow the subject came up about conducting and if there were differences in conducting  Opera, Ballet or
a Symphony Orchestra.

I think there must be a difference but neither of us have enough knowledge and so is there a difference?

Thanks for helping us.

The biggest difference is probably the most obvious opera/stage works/ballets all demand huge technical demands on the conductor. The conductor in these genres is responsible for keeping the music flowing, but also for creating a narrative that fits what is happening onstage. In other words, the conductor and performers on the stage must be 100% on the same page musically speaking. An opera might a little more difficult as you're dealing with a large number of musicians: the orchestra itself, the performers/soloists on stage, and, if there is one, a choir. An orchestral performance is a little more easier on the conductor, but it, too, has it's own challenges, especially if we're dealing with a concerto where a soloist and conductor, like that in an opera/ballet, must be in sync with each other and on the same page musically. A purely orchestral work, with no soloists, is mainly about the conductor's own interpretation and about the orchestra recognizing the conductor's cues and hints to change tempi or whatever.

I hope I explained this in coherent way as I'm pretty tired right now.

[jochanaan]

...A purely orchestral work, with no soloists, is mainly about the conductor's own interpretation and about the orchestra recognizing the conductor's cues and hints to change tempi or whatever.

On many levels, that's true; but a wise conductor will encourage his players, when they have solo passages, to play as if they were the soloist and the rest of the orchestra the accompanists.  In a piece like Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade, for instance, most conductors will let the principal violinist play her opening theme (I say her because it's Scheherazade's theme, after all ) with only minimal gestures; some will even stop conducting altogether until the rest of the orchestra comes in again.

From what I've seen, the main difference between opera and ballet, on one hand, and orchestral music including concertos on the other, is the necessity to allow for stagecraft and to work with the stage director or the ballet-company leader to realize a joint vision.  The actual conducting gestures don't change much from one genre to another.

[Scarpia]

From what I've seen, the main difference between opera and ballet, on one hand, and orchestral music including concertos on the other, is the necessity to allow for stagecraft and to work with the stage director or the ballet-company leader to realize a joint vision.  The actual conducting gestures don't change much from one genre to another.

Based on the one occasion where I heard Ballet music performed as a real ballet and as a concert piece, there tends to be more interpreting going on in the concert setting, where the piece effectively becomes a tone poem.  The necessity of people dancing to the music seems to necessitate a more regular beat and less playing around with the tempo.

[jochanaan]

Based on the one occasion where I heard Ballet music performed as a real ballet and as a concert piece, there tends to be more interpreting going on in the concert setting, where the piece effectively becomes a tone poem.  The necessity of people dancing to the music seems to necessitate a more regular beat and less playing around with the tempo.

That's very true.  Once when I was playing in the pit for The Nutcracker, the conductor told us, "I said a lot of nonsense about artistic collaboration in that interview, but what they really want is a bloody metronome!"

On the other hand, opera singers regularly play with the tempo and throw in holds on a high note that aren't in the music.  And conductor and orchestra are expected to follow.

[Opus106]

Once when I was playing in the pit for The Nutcracker, the conductor told us, "I said a lot of nonsense about artistic collaboration in that interview, but what they really want is a bloody metronome!"

[suzyq]

Thanks everyone - I remember one Swan Lake performance danced by American Ballet Theatre's Cynthia Gregory who danced the both Odette/Odille.

As the Black Swan she not only did 32 fouettes but doubled and as I membered tripled  them which meant that the orchestra had to keep repeating the same music a few times until it seemed that the Conductor and Cynthia Gregory silently nodded "enuf already" and the performance continued.

In a later interview she said that she was on a roll.  Guess this performance made it fun and games for the orchestra.  I think that ABT has it's own orchestra.

I enjoyed reading your replies and have learned a lot.  Thanks.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Thanks everyone - I remember one Swan Lake performance danced by American Ballet Theatre's Cynthia Gregory who danced the both Odette/Odille.

As the Black Swan she not only did 32 fouettes but doubled and as I membered tripled  them which meant that the orchestra had to keep repeating the same music a few times until it seemed that the Conductor and Cynthia Gregory silently nodded "enuf already" and the performance continued.

Sure about that? Most ballerinas find it taxing enough to reach the 32. And it's standard for the same ballerina to do both Odette/Odille; they are two aspects of the same character.

In my experience with dancers, their biggest concern is that a conductor take a danceable tempo. If you listen to Gergiev's Nutcracker, for example, it's unlikely that most human dancers can keep up with some of his speeds.

[suzyq]

Yes it happened - I remember it as if it were yesterday.  The audience gave her a standing ovation -  I remember after she finished the standard 32 she just kept on going, she did singles and doubles, and various arm positons has she turned. 

As I wrote, in an interview she was asked about the above and she said that she was on a roll or words to the effect. 


She had a strong technique and they use to say that she was so strong, she could partner herself.  She was a favorite of mine and I've seen her  dance many times. 

[MishaK]

The unique difficulties of conducting opera include: coordinating music on two physical levels, in the pit and on stage; managing balances, especially preventing orchestra from drowning out singers, when orchestra and singers often have trouble hearing each other due to the spatial separation; knowing how and when to follow and when to lead, i.e. knowing when a singer needs to breathe and therefore calibrating the phrasing and the rubato in such a way as to make the music sound natural, make the text sound poetic, and give the singer room to breathe and phrase in the right places, while also keeping the overall musical flow and structural cohesion. The latter is the most difficult task, which is why almost all of the best conductors started out as singing coaches (Korrepetitor in German), preparing singers for opera productions by accompanying on the piano, and which is why many insist that conductors go through a proper Korrepetitor program at an opera house before beging given an orchestra to conduct. If you look at the bios of the most famous conductors, almost all of them went this route in some fashion.

Ballet has the challenge of maintaining a danceable tempo and clear rhythm. That somewhat limits interpretive possibilities, which is why many conductors detest that job and don't do it unless they absolutely have to.

[Scarpia]

Yes it happened - I remember it as if it were yesterday.  The audience gave her a standing ovation -  I remember after she finished the standard 32 she just kept on going, she did singles and doubles, and various arm positons has she turned.

I see.  What is the ballet, or the Barnum and Bailey Circus?   

[psylocke24]

The biggest difference is probably the most obvious opera/stage works/ballets all demand huge technical demands on the conductor. The conductor in these genres is responsible for keeping the music flowing, but also for creating a narrative that fits what is happening onstage. In other words, the conductor and performers on the stage must be 100% on the same page musically speaking. An opera might a little more difficult as you're dealing with a large number of musicians: the orchestra itself, the performers/soloists on stage, and, if there is one, a choir. An orchestral performance is a little more easier on the conductor, but it, too, has it's own challenges, especially if we're dealing with a concerto where a soloist and conductor, like that in an opera/ballet, must be in sync with each other and on the same page musically. A purely orchestral work, with no soloists, is mainly about the conductor's own interpretation and about the orchestra recognizing the conductor's cues and hints to change tempi or whatever.

I hope I explained this in coherent way as I'm pretty tired right now.

I think it was well explained. You can watch some videos in youtube, search for the Opera, Ballet or a Symphony Orchestra. You can tell the difference when you finished watching videos about these 3.