Depth or Breadth?

[Octo_Russ]

I was just thinking about this today, as i played Mozart's 20th Piano Concerto for the umpteenth time, i find myself playing the same few hundred Classical works over and over again, mainly because i really love them all so much, but i haven't particularly explored the true breadth of what's out there in the Classical world, preferring to deeply get to know a smaller amount of works.

If i can use an analogy, it would explain more clearly what i'm on about, how many real friends can you possibly have?, you either have a small bunch of committed friendships, or if you go for hundreds of friends, you just end up with loads of mere acquaintances.

This is why i cannot understand anyone that owns any more than say 10,000+ CD's, surely you only end up "skimming" your collection, you can't possibly truly listen to what you have.

I would definitely say i'm a Depth person rather than a Breadth person, just wondering what other people on the forum think.

[Mirror Image]

I'm both.

[Sid]

I'm more a "breadth" type. I listen to everything from the Middle Ages up to now, although I have tended to concentrate on the chamber music genre. I generally like all genres except opera, although I even dip into that occassionally. I'm tending now to focus more on the "big names" & listening to major works that I haven't heard. This applies to concerts as well as on disc. Eg. last week I listened for the first time to Boulez's Le Marteau sans maître and Stockhausen's Klavierstucke which I got an compact disc. I'm trying to acquire such major works that I enjoy and are basically seminal works, worth getting to know if you are into classical music. I'm even thinking of getting J. S. Bach's Mass in B minor, because it's such an important work in the repertoire (I'm not highly into Bach, but I do enjoy choral music and masses, so that might sway me a bit).

Basically I believe "less is more." As long as you listen widely, and to the works that kind of mattered in terms of musical history, then you'll have a good grasp of the major trends that went on in classical music for the last 500 or more years. Of course, it's also intesting to get to know lesser known composers who were not the big movers and shakers, along the way as well. One doesn't have to own 1000 or more recordings to be able to appreciate classical music in a deeper way. Some people I know stopped collecting years ago, and probably don't have that big a collection, but they are active on the concert scene here in Sydney, so they see a wide variety of music in the flesh, so to speak...

[Mirror Image]

Some people I know stopped collecting years ago, and probably don't have that big a collection, but they are active on the concert scene here in Sydney, so they see a wide variety of music in the flesh, so to speak...

Going to concerts is all fine and dandy, but there is a huge chunk of the classical repertoire that isn't performed and can only be accessed through recordings.

[Conor71]

My collection is mostly limited to the standard repertoire to my preference is probably for depth - I do enjoy re-listening to my recordings many times over so I'm happy to own fewer recordings

[DavidW]

You can have many acquaintances but only a few real friends... as I think many do.

Same for classical music, you can listen to many works but only obsess over a few.  Heck take Don who listens to everything under the sun but has a huge collection of Goldberg Variations.  Or take Gurn who mines out the classical and romantic eras yet listens to Beethoven's 9th every Sunday.

While I listen to Beethoven's 3rd for the zillionth time I know that I might also listen to some Crumb, Lully or Zemlinsky that I usually don't listen to.  So I say both.

[DavidW]

btw that reminds me I think we're heading into a situation where streaming takes care of breadth and purchasing takes care of depth for some not for all.

Alot of things you just want to hear and move on-- stream.  Select few recordings you want to listen to many times-- purchase.  Of course classical cds are so cheap that you could buy, listen to once and still get your moneys worth.

[eyeresist]

When I explore new music, I guess what I'm really looking for are more of those Great Loves. The encyclopedic aspect is less appealing, though I can't deny its charms. With any luck, every year of exploration will find a couple of new works to add to the small but precious pile of Great Loves.

Makes me sound like Gollum from Lord of the Rings!

[bigshot]

When it comes to music, I'm for breadth... Beyond classical into popular music, folk music, jazz, ethnic, etc. However there are certain artists and composers who are worth exploring fully. There aren't a lot of them, but when you come across an Ellington, Beethoven or Caruso, it's hard not to dive down to the very bottom.

[mc ukrneal]

I was just thinking about this today, as i played Mozart's 20th Piano Concerto for the umpteenth time, i find myself playing the same few hundred Classical works over and over again, mainly because i really love them all so much, but i haven't particularly explored the true breadth of what's out there in the Classical world, preferring to deeply get to know a smaller amount of works.

If i can use an analogy, it would explain more clearly what i'm on about, how many real friends can you possibly have?, you either have a small bunch of committed friendships, or if you go for hundreds of friends, you just end up with loads of mere acquaintances.

This is why i cannot understand anyone that owns any more than say 10,000+ CD's, surely you only end up "skimming" your collection, you can't possibly truly listen to what you have.

I would definitely say i'm a Depth person rather than a Breadth person, just wondering what other people on the forum think.

You'd probably consider me a breadth person, but I think of myself as both. When I start listening to a new disc, I try to listen to it a few times over a few weeks so that I learn the music. Sometimes the pause between first and second listen is long (a few months or longer) and sometimes only a day (I cannot think of a disc I actually listened to a second time immedaitely after the first time). But I try to have a third listen soon after the second listen. Once I know a piece, I don't really need to repeat it that often.

Some pieces take longer to absorb and others less. This is always an interesting phase and unpredictable. There are long pieces that come quickly to me (a Bruckner symphony, for example, the 8th recently) and shorter pieces that take many listens. Mahler symphonies usually take me more listens, but this did not happen with the 7th (for example), which came after a couple listenings. Sometimes during repeats I will stop and listen to certain sections again (perhaps up to half a dozen times) or skip around the piece. This is something I cannot plan for until I have heard the music for a first time. I will even start doing this with pieces I know well (usually with a full listen after so that I hear the whole piece again, but depends how well I know it).

Once I know the music well, I don't listen to the CD that often, especially if it is often played in the real world. I cannot remember the last time I listened to a Beethoven symphony from my collection (hence why I don't buy them anymore). It's probably been 1-2 years since I last played one, and that was probably the Pastoral. I do, however, listen to them when they are on the radio, on TV, or some other medium. I often sing/hum whole symphonies (or movements or snippits) during my day. I can sing the second movement to Beethoven's 9th or the first movement from the 5th and pretty much the entire Pastoral upon demand.  So it plays in my head (or parts of it do) on a regular basis (walking home, doing the groceries, etc.). I haven't a clue if this is typical of others, but as a result, I may 'listen' to it more often than someone who plays the disc and then moves on to something else.

At the same time, I enjoy listening to new pieces. The little love can be nearly as great a great love. Pieces that have grown into big loves include Franz Richter symphonies, Burgmuller symphony #1, and the Alnaes Piano concerto over the past few years (just a sample). But some stay as smaller loves and those are good to - Richard Franck orchestral music, Sibelius piano music, and Liszt paraphrases (and maybe these will grow into a great love or wane - who knows)

Once you have the pieces down, listening to them is like visiting an old friend. One doesn't need to listen to him all the time to remember why it was you loved him. I have a good memory for voices and music.  That probably helps.

[The new erato]

Breadth - and much as I love some parts of the classical repertoire I cannot understand how people can play it over and over again without it going stale. Additionally I cannot understand the lack of coriosity about the wealth of glorious (and sometimes not quite so glorious) repertoire out there. My last couple of days listening have included:

Jongen Piano trios (great, late romantic music, mandatory stuff if you like Faure)
Badings symphonies (vol 2 on cpo, a really major symphonic voice and a great series)
Gounod symphonies (sligthly hohum)
Korngold violin concerto (Shahan)
Bartok concertoes (viola, 2 pianos, Boulez, great disc)
Cesti Dizgracie d'Amore (a major and moving Venetian opera)
Sallinen Songs of Life and Death (glorious)
Rosza and Vieuxtemps violin concertoes (Heifetz, enough said)

and except for the Gounod I'll say they have all been enrichening experiences, much more so then the umpteeenth repetition of some repertoire piece I already know far too well (of course I pick up old favorites from time to time too)

[The new erato]

If i can use an analogy, it would explain more clearly what i'm on about, how many real friends can you possibly have?, you either have a small bunch of committed friendships, or if you go for hundreds of friends, you just end up with loads of mere acquaintances.

I find this analogy seriously flawed as my friend is music, I don't go to particular works in look for the familiar.

[Sid]

Going to concerts is all fine and dandy, but there is a huge chunk of the classical repertoire that isn't performed and can only be accessed through recordings.

Yeah, but what I was saying was that in order to be able to appreciate classical music in a deep sense, one doesn't have to own zillions of recordings. Going to concerts has helped me understand the diversity of the repertoire in a pretty deep way. I've gotten to know many things that I otherwise wouldn't have. As I said, it is worth collecting more obscure things as well. But as I see it, I'd rather be more familiar with the "biggies," the pieces by the "movers and shakers" of the classical world across the ages. They are the ones that tend to stand out for me on the whole in terms of quality and enjoyment. Having said that, I am beginning to develop a taste for some of the less canonical (canonised?) composers. Eg. these days I much prefer Miklos Rozsa over Bartok, but I got to know Bartok's stuff well before I heard Rozsa...

I often sing/hum whole symphonies (or movements or snippits) during my day. I can sing the second movement to Beethoven's 9th or the first movement from the 5th and pretty much the entire Pastoral upon demand.  So it plays in my head (or parts of it do) on a regular basis (walking home, doing the groceries, etc.). I haven't a clue if this is typical of others, but as a result, I may 'listen' to it more often than someone who plays the disc and then moves on to something else...

Sounds like you have a very good ear. I can't do that. I only end up remembering snippets of pieces, particuarly those bits that grab me most. But this last weekend I went to a concert of Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire & I found that I could anticipate in my mind what was going to happen next in each song (there are 21 songs in all in this work). This may seem rather odd with this more difficult and complex repertoire, & I only acquired the work on disc at the beginning of this year (but I did listen to it many times as a form of preparation, I'm sometimes pretty pedantic about this kind of thing)...

[mc ukrneal]

Sounds like you have a very good ear. I can't do that. I only end up remembering snippets of pieces, particuarly those bits that grab me most. But this last weekend I went to a concert of Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire & I found that I could anticipate in my mind what was going to happen next in each song (there are 21 songs in all in this work). This may seem rather odd with this more difficult and complex repertoire, & I only acquired the work on disc at the beginning of this year (but I did listen to it many times as a form of preparation, I'm sometimes pretty pedantic about this kind of thing)...

It's pretty good, but it is offset by a lousy eye (my wife always remembers faces and I can never seem to place them - there was a movie last night with Jessica Simpson. She looked familiar but I couldn't place her and when I asked my wife why she looked familiar, she looked at me in exasperation that I couldn't recognize even a sex bomb - oh well). I think simplicity and complexity have less to do with it than how much it touches you. I find that music that touches me deeply is always more ready to be accessed. Although there are a few pieces that get under your skin that I sometimes can't shake, and the more you try to ignore/forget the tune, the more strongly it sticks. Funny how that works...

[Sergeant Rock]

...when I asked my wife why she looked familiar, she looked at me in exasperation that I couldn't recognize even a sex bomb - oh well)

She shouldn't be annoyed with you....that is unless you wake up in the morning and wonder who that stranger is sharing your bed 


Sarge

[mc ukrneal]

She shouldn't be annoyed with you....that is unless you wake up in the morning and wonder who that stranger is sharing your bed 


Sarge

Hah! Nothing like that! It happens more with actors and such than with people I've actually met. I guess that means more space in there for music!

[Grazioso]

Both. I explore/listen widely, but I also pay attention to what I'm hearing, and usually play each piece a few times (and try to read about it) before moving on to the next. I also have a lot of favorites that I return to again and again, year after year.

[Lethevich]

Both. A lake is a reasonable analogy for most people's listening: what they know a lot about represents the deep middle, with each side progressively shallowing out towards what they are less familiar with.

[Scarpia]

Both. A lake is a reasonable analogy for most people's listening: what they know a lot about represents the deep middle, with each side progressively shallowing out towards what they are less familiar with.

Very apt analogy! 

[karlhenning]

Aye, well done, Sara!