Why do record labels mess with us?

[jochanaan]

I guess that all these are reasons that so many orchestras have developed their own labels.

[Antoine Marchand]

A brief digression.

I really consider hard to state that:

discipline = creativity - imagination

Just saying... 

[Grazioso]

Another beef, and one so easily and cheaply rectified that I'm surprised it ever occurs: not printing the album track list, at least in abbreviated form, on the back inlay card of the jewel box. (Naive is guilty of this with their Vivaldi edition.) A purchaser shouldn't have to remove and look through the #$%! booklet just to figure out which pieces or movements are on which tracks. That's just lazy, inconsiderate design.

[jochanaan]

A brief digression.

I really consider hard to state that:

discipline = creativity - imagination

Just saying... 

That's why I didn't say it. The converse of a true statement is not always true.

[Scarpia]

Another beef, and one so easily and cheaply rectified that I'm surprised it ever occurs: not printing the album track list, at least in abbreviated form, on the back inlay card of the jewel box. (Naive is guilty of this with their Vivaldi edition.) A purchaser shouldn't have to remove and look through the #$%! booklet just to figure out which pieces or movements are on which tracks. That's just lazy, inconsiderate design.

It should be in both places.  It irritates me that Naxos does not put the track list in the booklet, so you have to refer to the jewel case.  This means you have to juggle both if you want to browse through the notes and keep track of the track list.

[Mirror Image]

There is one thing that really winds me up and this is packaging where the central plastic CD holder grasps the disc with a tetanic death grip making me fear for the disc as I have to bend it to remove it. I once had a disc (a vihuela recital) from Glossa arrive. It was so wedged on to the plastic central holder the disc snapped the first time I tried to remove it.

I agree with this and absolutely hate when this happens. The Decca 2-CD sets are the worse about this. I have a ton of empty jewel cases and many of them have the 2-CD holders, but the good ones, which are the black ones, are easier to get out than the clear ones I have found. So what I do is once I get them out of the death grip clear holders, I throw the clear one away and replace with a black one.

[Grazioso]

It should be in both places.  It irritates me that Naxos does not put the track list in the booklet, so you have to refer to the jewel case.  This means you have to juggle both if you want to browse through the notes and keep track of the track list.

I agree, though I can see how it might be a cost-saving measure not to print an extra page in a booklet for track listings.

[Marc]

Ha! Record companies!

Going back in time on the talks of the board, it's a flashback!!

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1731.0.html

[Bulldog]

Ugh, this reminds me of a silly thing I had to deal with recently. I don't look forward to supposedly "luxury" or artistic digipak issues as they are often so much less functional than a bog standard jewel case and booklet. I encountered a most annoying gripe was with this disc.

It comes with a sizable booklet, but it is glued onto the foldout tray, and because it's on the inside of the left flap, you cannot flick through it with your right hand, and the spine is on the left side where the digipak ends, so the only way to browse it with comfort is with your left hand, flicking from back to front, Japanese-style. I don't know whether this is ignorance or contempt, but it's such a horribly poor decision.

Do you have a problem using your left hand?

[Mirror Image]

Do you have a problem using your left hand?

I don't think using the left-hand is the issue here, Bulldog, but rather another poor presentation that annoys the customers.

Another annoyance of mine was the box of Langgaard symphonies on Dacapo. I'm not going to launch into specifics with this set other than to say that they should have given each disc it's own sleeve.

[Gurn Blanston]

Do you have a problem using your left hand?

Gluing in a booklet is totally unnecessary, to the point of being rude.   Even if it wasn't left-handed. I have a couple of digipaks like that too. They are the proverbial 2 foot flame.

[Scarpia]

Gluing in a booklet is totally unnecessary, to the point of being rude.   Even if it wasn't left-handed. I have a couple of digipaks like that too. They are the proverbial 2 foot flame.

I rip those out. 

[eyeresist]

Card sleeves that are too tight. The only way to get the disc out is to grip the flat surfaces of the disc with your fingers and wrench it out.

Also, card sleeves with no information except the disc number and possibly the names of the works contained. It is more convenient for the listener to have the info on the card, than have to get the booklet out as well and prop it open at the correct page. It wouldn't cost a fortune to put track listings on the sleeve, but I guess they are worried their profits will drop massively if they do this, due to individually sleeved CDs being sold 2nd hand. I'm pretty sure that's a minor threat compared to the torrents.

[Mirror Image]

I've collected most of the recordings that I want, but now I'm looking for rare, out-of-print recordings. I feel bad for the person just now getting into classical music, especially the ones who, like I did, want the actual CDs, because there have been so many great recordings recently that have gone out-of-print and it doesn't look like they're going to be reissued anytime soon. Not only that but the price of CDs has increased in the past year or so.

[Scarpia]

I've collected most of the recordings that I want, but now I'm looking for rare, out-of-print recordings. I feel bad for the person just now getting into classical music, especially the ones who, like I did, want the actual CDs, because there have been so many great recordings recently that have gone out-of-print and it doesn't look like they're going to be reissued anytime soon. Not only that but the price of CDs has increased in the past year or so.

That's one gripe I don't have.  Having been collecting classical music for longer than I'd like to admit, my perception is that classical music has never been more widely available for less money.  I remember collecting the Beethoven string quartets was a problem because each installment of the Vermeer cycle, was costing me $15, and in those days "box sets" were super-deluxe editions.  For years and years I didn't have a Beethoven cycle, now I am not sure how many cycles I have.  That same Vermeer cycle is available for around $30, and the Amadeus Quartet, Emerson, Guarneri, Italiano cycles are boxed up for prices as low as $25.  How can you beat that?   Certainly there are things out of print, for instance I've recently been annoyed to find that the Fischer Bartok recordings on Philips are no longer in the catalog, but things have always been out of print, and I don't think there has ever been more stuff in print than there is now.  As far as price, they may have creaped up since the depth of the financial crisis, but I still find them very low compared a few years ago.

One thing I'm concerned about is the transition to digital distribution.  I'm in the process of copying my CDs to lossless files anyway, and I'm just concerned that future digital downloads don't come encumbered with "digital rights management."  I don't want to get the recordings for free, but when I do get them, I don't want to have to fight with a digital rights management system to listen to my own audio files.

[Lethevich]

Do you have a problem using your left hand?

For books, yes - the natural way of reading it (cycling through the pages with your thumb) can only be done from back to front. Trying to do it the other way with this contraption just causes it to flop out of your fingers like a live fish

Edit: I forgot my [whine][/whine] tags, but the more silly the complaint, the more important it is

[Mirror Image]

But overall, I am a fan of downloading music, for a bunch of reasons: 1) I love having access to the music immediately and not having to wait for a week-10 days for delivery; 2) I love having the portability of my entire music library; 3) I love being able to create playlists based on time periods or national schools or styles; 4) I do not quibble with the audio quality and don't miss booklets; 5) I appreciate the lower prices for downloaded tracks as opposed to CDs; and 6) last, but not least, I love not adding more bulk to my already very bulky CD collection.

There's so much I want to respond to here that I feel like Havergal Brian with his Gothic symphony. So many ideas bouncing around in my head...

Anyway, I'm not opposed to downloading if it's a recording that I want and know I won't be able to get on CD. I remember I waited at least 2 years on one recording and finally a decent seller came along and offered one online for a great price in excellent condition, so I think all good things are worth the wait. My philosophy is that I already have enough on my to-listen-to pile that it doesn't really bother me waiting a few days to get the recording I ordered. You wouldn't have to wait two weeks if you order from a good seller. MovieMars is a horrible seller. One of the worst I've encountered in all my years of buying online, which is about 12 years total. Only in the last 5-6 years have I become what I call a "CD Nazi" where if I buy something online described as "like new," then it better be in this condition or I'll be getting my money back. "Like new" to me means mint condition. This could go for a simple mistake being made in their item description, like, for example, failing to mention that the CD is a BMG release. Simple mistakes like this have cost sellers money as I have received many free CDs because the seller made a mistake and the interesting thing is they continue to make them. It's not that I'm out to get free music, but rather that I'm a collector and I like owning the originals, so the item's condition is of utmost importance to me.

Not all downloads are cheaper than their CD counterparts. I'm not going to give examples, because there are WAY TOO MANY examples to give. But downloading music is not all what its cracked up to be in my opinion. I'm the kind of person who likes to get something out of their purchases. Owning the CDs, you get the artwork, and the booklets. Many companies offer the PDFs online, but this isn't the same as holding the booklet in your hands. It's just not the same satisfaction. Also with the CDs, I can do whatever I want with it. I can burn myself backup copies of the CDs, I can rip the CD to iTunes and put it on one of my iPods. I realize people have some problems with space. I'm running into this issue as well, but, as a collector, I can't think of any other way I would want it.

Re: Audio quality

When I'm ripping my CDs in iTunes, I use a 192 kbps transfer rate. This sounds really good and there isn't a whole lot of loss in the audio quality. I absolutely HATE horrible audio and for classical music, I think it's absolutely necessary to have good audio, which also includes headphones, stereo equipment, etc. These are absolutely essential in getting the most out of your music I think.

[DavidW]

Leon, I had the same problem... want to get the QM set but it is OOP.  Movie Marz is the only one selling, thought they were lying so I bought it and a few days later they canceled the order.  They've listed it yet again, so I'm going to order it again and keep going until they learn their lesson.

[Scarpia]

Leon, I had the same problem... want to get the QM set but it is OOP.  Movie Marz is the only one selling, thought they were lying so I bought it and a few days later they canceled the order.  They've listed it yet again, so I'm going to order it again and keep going until they learn their lesson.

I had the set but ended up selling it a few years ago (so I can give you the name and address of someone who has a copy  ).  But, at least by classical music standards it was popular so I assume Naive is planning to reissue it in some form.

[DavidW]

Fingers crossed!