What is Shm-CD?

[petrarch]

Covered by whom?  Engineers who manufacture CDs, or audiophiles and other internet experts who claim there is a difference between CDs?  If they meet red book specs they will sound the same.

The data meets redbook specs, but the quality of the pressing doesn't always allow the hardware to read the information properly. The error correction is stricter in recorded CD-Rs (per the spec), which makes it easier for the reading hardware to reconstitute the original. It is a myth that CDs are 100% accurate in getting the 0s and 1s out of the surface of the disc and therefore that they are a bit-perfect medium. If you google for audio cd error correction and redbook error correction you will get your info.

[Lethevich]

@petrarch: how does that relate to things like SHM's claims to make recordings "sound better"? The occasional missed 1 or 0 will be all but indiscernable.

[petrarch]

@petrarch: how does that relate to things like SHM's claims to make recordings "sound better"? The occasional missed 1 or 0 will be all but indiscernable.

"Sound better" is probably marketese for "more accurate". Ultimately, it might really be better, because the reader hardware can only do so much when it fails to read and interpolates. Interpolated audio prevents discontinuities in the stream from being sent out of the player (they are the nastiest sounding digital artifacts, and that's why most CDPs just output silence when errors occur) but it also destroys transients, harmonic structure and overall 'correctness' of the sound. Some sound editors out there allow you to do interpolation, it's a very educational exercise to interpolate samples of recorded music and see how the ear perceives it, even when the touch-up lasts less than 1/10th of a millisecond. It's like the perfect photograph, soiled by a little smudge.

Another misconception is that it is only the occasional 1 or 0 that is missed. Data is read in chunks (192 bits, I think) and therefore these can be misread as a whole, although the redundancy allows for a better isolation of the bytes that were misread.

[Lethevich]

Thanks, that POV makes sense.

[RJR]

The four Shm-cds that I have listened to so far all sound better, spatially, sonically, with more depth and clarity. Go to the Japanese website that I posted and find a Shm-cd that matches one of your own and make a comparison test.

[Daverz]

The four Shm-cds that I have listened to so far all sound better, spatially, sonically, with more depth and clarity. Go to the Japanese website that I posted and find a Shm-cd that matches one of your own and make a comparison test.

Have you compared SHM and non-SHM Japanese issues, or an SHM and a non-Japanese issue?

[Fred]

Another "new" japanese technology is "blu-spec" (sold at HMV Japan etc).  What I like about it is that the Japanese generally seem to "re-master" old records before they put them out in blu-spec.  As a result I've been getting lots of old Denon analogue remasters (Neumann's Dvorak, Smetana Qt's Dvorak etc etc).  There is also a good deal of Szell from the fifties (rip-roaring Schubert 9, etc etc) and Ormandy from his prime.

However, I haven't bothered buying SHM or Blu-spec or XRCD where the original source was a digital tape  because the supposed enhancement isn't worth it.

[RJR]

Have you compared SHM and non-SHM Japanese issues, or an SHM and a non-Japanese issue?

Yes, but not the same album so far. I compared the Kertesz Dvorak Ninth SHM-cd (SuperHighMaterial-Cd) with the Kubelik Dvorak Ninth. No contest. Kertesz 1 Kubelik 0. The Kertesz is quite good in other respects, by the way. I have listened to other SHM-cds and I must admit that they are not all equal in dynamic improvement at the same level as the Kertesz cd was. So I guess it all depends on the quality of the original master.

Also have Reiner Bartok Music for Strings, De Falla 3-cornered hat, Munch Beethoven 3rd, Mussorgsky Pictures (Ansermet) and Saint-Saens 3rd. Bartok not so great. Hopeless case, really. Hear some surface noise. Beethoven 3rd quite good. Saint-Saens, first movement. Sounds good. No comparison yet.

As I stated before you should hear a greater clarity of sound, more spaciousness in the stereo image and more dynamic punch, if all goes well.

[Hilltroll73]

It's a "new" way to produce CDs:

"The high quality SHM-CD (Super High Material CD) format features enhanced audio quality through the use of a special polycarbonate plastic. Using a process developed by JVC and Universal Music Japan discovered through the joint companies' research into LCD display manufacturing, SHM-CDs feature improved transparency on the data side of the disc, allowing for more accurate reading of CD data by the CD player laser head. SHM-CD format CDs are fully compatible with standard CD players. Experience the high-fidelity audio quality of the SHM-CD format ."
[...]

About this 'improved transparency': the CD contains 1s and 0s, not subtle variations of analog frequencies. for an expert (and comprehensible) elaboration of the significance of this fact, I suggest obtaining (probably via download) a copy of the software application EAC (Exact Audio Copy).  The documentation is adequate for the purpose.

I will only add that in my experience the great majority of CDs and CD-Rs I have ripped to my computer using EAC have not required error correction. That is also significant.

[Gurn Blanston]

About this 'improved transparency': the CD contains 1s and 0s, not subtle variations of analog frequencies. for an expert (and comprehensible) elaboration of the significance of this fact, I suggest obtaining (probably via download) a copy of the software application EAC (Exact Audio Copy).  The documentation is adequate for the purpose.

I will only add that in my experience the great majority of CDs and CD-Rs I have ripped to my computer using EAC have not required error correction. That is also significant.

  Before Todd comes back to tell you, I will just note that any resemblance to awe that you may have seen in his post is purely a result of the sarcasm he uses to describe audiophoolery.   1's & 0's. That's it.   



----------------
Now playing:
Shostokovich Piano Trio - Mussorgsky 'Pictures at an Exhibition' arr for Piano Trio pt 14 - La Grande Porte de Kiev

[Todd]

It is a myth that CDs are 100% accurate in getting the 0s and 1s out of the surface of the disc and therefore that they are a bit-perfect medium.

I find it remarkable that anyone would think that CDs are accurate in getting anything out.  That's the job of the CD player, not the CD.  The CD merely needs to contain the data.

Interpolated audio...also destroys transients, harmonic structure and overall 'correctness' of the sound.

What a load of crap. 

[Daverz]

Yes, but not the same album so far. I compared the Kertesz Dvorak Ninth SHM-cd (SuperHighMaterial-Cd) with the Kubelik Dvorak Ninth.

It doesn't surprise me that the Decca recording sounds better than the DG recording.

I meant have you compared SHM and "standard" CDs of the same issue, for example this Kertesz 9th CD (is it the one with Vienna and coupled with the Wind Serenade?)  I have the standard version of this Japanese issue.  It would be interesting to compare the AccurateRip checksums.

[kishnevi]

The one advantage that Shm-CDs might possibly have is durability in comparison to normal CDs--in other words, they may not scratch as easily or otherwise suffer less from normal wear and tear.

But that does not justify the price difference in my mind.  If worse come to worse (as it has in a few cases) I can always rip and burn a replacement CD.

Plus, however fantastic the audio quality of a CD may be, it has to be played on a CD player, and it's really the sound quality of the player and speakers that determines what we hear. A fantastically engineered recording will still sound rather cheap on a bad system--it won't sound as cheap as a worse engineered recording, but it will still sound not all that great.

[eyeresist]

A fantastically engineered recording will still sound rather cheap on a bad system--it won't sound as cheap as a worse engineered recording, but it will still sound not all that great.

My experience with my less-than-awesome sound system is that it brings most recordings down to a similar level, i.e. a superaudiophile CD sounds little better than a restored recording from the 50s. I like this because it increases the relative importance of the performance, as compared to the sound quality.

[petrarch]

What a load of crap.

Try it with a sound editor before you rush to conclusions.

[RJR]

My stereo is not high end: A Luxman receiver, Dynaco speakers, CDs and DVDs played back on a $100 dollar Toshiba DVD player. The original Kertesz/Dvorak Ninth has very good sound, but the the SHM-cd is superior. No doubt about it. The timpani drum roll at minute two of the first movement sounds like rolling thunder, the woodwinds, horns and strings much clearer. It certainly is an improvement. Whether you want to pay $20 to $25 dollars for it is up to you to decide.

[eyeresist]

Of course, the original CD issue of the Kertesz/Dvorak wouldn't be hard to improve.

[Daverz]

My stereo is not high end: A Luxman receiver, Dynaco speakers, CDs and DVDs played back on a $100 dollar Toshiba DVD player. The original Kertesz/Dvorak Ninth has very good sound, but the the SHM-cd is superior. No doubt about it. The timpani drum roll at minute two of the first movement sounds like rolling thunder, the woodwinds, horns and strings much clearer. It certainly is an improvement. Whether you want to pay $20 to $25 dollars for it is up to you to decide.

So just to be clear, you're comparing the SHM and non-SHM CDs of this release?

[RJR]

So just to be clear, you're comparing the SHM and non-SHM CDs of this release?

Yes, I did.

[Daverz]

Of course, the original CD issue of the Kertesz/Dvorak wouldn't be hard to improve.

I believe the original CD release was this AAD release (AAD meaning, I believe, that mastering was done in the analog domain with digitization done only in the last step of the transfer to CD.) 



Which should be better because it's less digital!  (It really is quite good IMO).  I never really compared it to the "Decca 100 Best" (non-SHM) CD below until now (I bought the Japanese issue primarily for the Wind Serenade).  The newer one does sound a bit clearer with a wider, deeper soundstage.  In any case, it's a very exciting performance.