André Rieu

[eyeresist]

I quite like the show in general. It was just that one episode which praised Holst to the skies for most of its length, and then had a five minute addendum for Our Rafe, whose chief claim to fame was, according to Callow, that he was known to Holst. The balance seemed completely wrong to me, and surely the result of ignorance on the part of Callow and the series producer.

[Mirror Image]

I quite like the show in general. It was just that one episode which praised Holst to the skies for most of its length, and then had a five minute addendum for Our Rafe, whose chief claim to fame was, according to Callow, that he was known to Holst. The balance seemed completely wrong to me, and surely the result of ignorance on the part of Callow and the series producer.

I haven't seen this episode (it's in the second series), but this does sound troublesome. As a devout RVW fan, I believe I won't be watching this one. But, then again, I don't know that much about Holst, so maybe it might be interesting to gain a little bit more knowledge about this composer.

[eyeresist]

I haven't seen this episode (it's in the second series), but this does sound troublesome. As a devout RVW fan, I believe I won't be watching this one. But, then again, I don't know that much about Holst, so maybe it might be interesting to gain a little bit more knowledge about this composer.

Plus I imagine you enjoy being outraged on occasion

Seriously, I'm not that familiar with Holst's choral works, haven't heard Savitri or the vaunted Hymn of Jesus. But I doubt they could so completely overshadow RVW's masterpieces.

[Sid]

...With different instruments than they're used to, but does that really count? Maybe requires repeated listenings because of complexity, but does that count? Often good and enjoyable music from experts and: rewarding in whatever ways, that's what it has to be.

I'm serious about the following, I'm not trying to talk uninformed or smarmy rubbish or be trolling -

I have listened to the album below of arrangements by Andre Rieu titled "You'll Never Walk Alone" which has a compliment of both instrumental and operatic classical, show tunes and movie themes played by full symphony orchestra with a range of soloists - on violin, cello, guitar, piano, and vocalists including sopranos and tenors. They are all combined in the last (the title) track, which comes across almost like a grand ending to a symphony or oratorio. It's nothing if not classical in that way.

I've been listening to all kinds of classical on & off for more than 30 years, and I can seriously say that Mr Rieu's arrangements stand up to repeated listening in just the same way as not only some of the non-mainstream classical arrangers like Ronnie Binge (who worked under Mantovani producing his unique "cascading strings" sound & even penned the evergreen "Elizabethan Serenade" which is on Rieu's album as a kind of tribute), Edith Piaf and the like but also more mainstream classical arrangers like Canteloube, Orff and perhaps even the great Schoenberg (his arrangements of Strauss' waltzes are basically textbook stuff, but he also co-arranged a number of other things like Mahler).

I can discuss in detail any track from this album, which I basically think is top notch. Rieu shows his accute sensitivity to the originals, it is clear that his knowledge of these scores is above average. Some might say that his use of larger forces for simple tunes like the title track might appear kind of overblown, but I think that's just a matter of taste. I mean there are plenty of people out there who find the mammoth forces used by geniuses like Berlioz, Wagner or Mahler to not to be to their personal preferences in a similar way.

Some of the originals he hardly touches at all, eg. Elgar's Pomp & Circumstance March No. 1 (Land of Hope & Glory). In that, Rieu just uses a slightly larger string section, a much reduced chamber choir, and a brief splash of organ at the very last minute, to add some extra colour and finality. Others like Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata (first movement) are more drastically reworked, but only to emphasise things that are already inherent in the score. Here the piano is gently joined by the orchestra, much in a similar way to the famous opening of Beethoven's 4th piano concerto. Towards the middle, the choir joins in a wordless way, kind of humming or harmonising underneath the soloist & orchestra. This is very subtle, you probably won't notice them at all on the first listen. As Rieu's notes say, Beethoven didn't name this sonata "Moonlight" but the image of moonbeams being reflected at night on a tranquil pond or something seems to come into many listeners minds. Rieu just brings this kind of image into slightly sharper relief than the original, but he doesn't detract from it, he kind of adds a little extra dimension to it in his own unique way.

& you'll all laugh about this (well, maybe!). I really dislike Andrew Lloyd Webber's hit song "The Music of the Night" from his musical "The Phantom of the Opera." My mother really liked this musical (because she liked opera the most, this musical is probably the most operatic one ever penned thus far). I am kind of okay with the rest of this musical, I think it has a kind of dramatic flair overall, but I just hated that song because it was like an earworm. So when the track came up, I almost skipped ahead to avoid it. But I'm glad I didn't. Rieu's arrangement, featuring a soulful, lyrical and melodic cello solo, strikes me as a 110 per cent improvement on the original. It actually comes across as real music, not just a soundbyte or earworm. It has a slightly tragic and melancholic feel, which fits in with the story of the musical. The choir comes in at the end, singing the song, and this is also appropriate as musical theatre is part of the vocal spectrum. The cello solo might be a nod to Andrew's younger cellist brother, Julian. In any case, this track is one of my favourites on the whole disc.

So you "highbrows" out there, please don't rubbish Rieu's talents or abilities. He is a craftsman just like the best of the great arrangers of the past. He knows the scores expertly and he treats them with great sensitivity and respect. These arrangements show the character of the original composer's emotions as much as they do those of Mr Rieu. You really can't ask much more than that!

[asin]B0027OSSEC[/asin]

@ MI - Not to go too much off topic, which I kind of did in the former post re Classical Destinations (but I think it fits in to the general gist of our discussions on Rieu). In a nutshell, the second TV series is as good as the first. It just covers some more composers, it has the same style and format of the first set. Simon Callow is joined by co-presenters Matt Wills and Nicki Vasilakis - the latter one of our top violinists in the chamber realm here in Australia (I've seen her in many piano trio recitals & she's a very skilled and versatile muso). Most of us here in the intermediate to advanced echelon of classical listening will be familiar with most of the composers covered, except for a Serbian guy called Mokranjac who is interestingly covered in the same episode as the great Spaniard, Albeniz. I think you'll enjoy this just as you did the first series (I'm not sure if it's still available, you'll have to look into this at your usual places for these things)...

[Sid]

I quite like the show in general. It was just that one episode which praised Holst to the skies for most of its length, and then had a five minute addendum for Our Rafe, whose chief claim to fame was, according to Callow, that he was known to Holst. The balance seemed completely wrong to me, and surely the result of ignorance on the part of Callow and the series producer.

You raise the good point of balance, but I think you are seeing this in a too "scholarly" type of light. Classical Destinations is not a scholarly documentary, it's a TV series, simple as that. Vaughan Williams did work for many years on the English hymnal, in some ways this is one of the most living aspects of his art. Many of the chruch services in the UK (& even out in former colonies of the British Empire like here in Australia) has the choir and congregation sing his masterly arrangements, which come across to me as both not too hard to sing and miniature gems in themselves.

The TV series is just a "starting point." If people want more they can consult many other sources out there, there's a wealth of them on these composers, most of them are quite mainstream (except the Serbian composer Mokranjac in the second series)...

[Mirror Image]

Plus I imagine you enjoy being outraged on occasion

Seriously, I'm not that familiar with Holst's choral works, haven't heard Savitri or the vaunted Hymn of Jesus. But I doubt they could so completely overshadow RVW's masterpieces.

Yes, let the RAGE begin!!!

[Mirror Image]

@ MI - Not to go too much off topic, which I kind of did in the former post re Classical Destinations (but I think it fits in to the general gist of our discussions on Rieu). In a nutshell, the second TV series is as good as the first. It just covers some more composers, it has the same style and format of the first set. Simon Callow is joined by co-presenters Matt Wills and Nicki Vasilakis - the latter one of our top violinists in the chamber realm here in Australia (I've seen her in many piano trio recitals & she's a very skilled and versatile muso). Most of us here in the intermediate to advanced echelon of classical listening will be familiar with most of the composers covered, except for a Serbian guy called Mokranjac who is interestingly covered in the same episode as the great Spaniard, Albeniz. I think you'll enjoy this just as you did the first series (I'm not sure if it's still available, you'll have to look into this at your usual places for these things)...

Thanks for the information, Andre. Sounds like I'll be picking up this series as well. Obviously, I'm familiar with all the composers they discuss, but Mokranjac is a composer I never heard of. I did a Google on him and evidently his only claim to fame was he brought Serbian folk music into art music.

[eyeresist]

You raise the good point of balance, but I think you are seeing this in a too "scholarly" type of light. Classical Destinations is not a scholarly documentary, it's a TV series, simple as that. ...
The TV series is just a "starting point." If people want more they can consult many other sources out there, there's a wealth of them on these composers, most of them are quite mainstream

No, my problem isn't scholarly, quite the opposite. It's precisely because this series will be for many viewers an introduction to music they don't know that I have a problem. Vaughan Williams wrote more music than Holst, and more masterpieces than Holst. He was more musically individual than Holst. He was probably taller than him too! So praising Holst as the master and relegating RVW to a footnote is not just a question of a choice of balance, it is grossly misleading of the viewer.

[JerryS]

On July 3 in Vienna Andre Rieu premiered a waltz composed by Anthony Hopkins. Yes, the Anthony Hopkins of Hannibal Lecter fame. Hopkins is a big fan of Rieu and hoped  "As the Waltz Goes On" would lead to a meeting with the conductor. Rieu plans to include the work in his Fall tour and his next album.


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/07/anthony-hopkins-andre-rieu-.html#comments

[AllegroVivace]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD3VsesSBsw  Take a look at him conducting "Oh, Fortuna", with a violin in hand the whole time. What a disgusting experience to watch this when you know the original version well and have heard a real interpretation before.

Consider it a moral duty to never miss an opportunity to ridicule Andre Rieu and his 'art'. 

[Mirror Image]

Consider it a moral duty to never miss an opportunity to ridicule Andre Rieu and his 'art'.

Trust me, I've already done a lot of this on GMG already.