United States of Incompetence?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Here's something that has been bothering and puzzling me lately. First, some background: I'm a US citizen, but have been living abroad since 2005. I visit the US once or twice a year, for not more than 2 weeks at a time.

Just in the last couple of years, during my visits, I have noticed a vast increase in what one might call "casual incompetence" in American life. Here are examples:

1. For the first time ever, a hotel forgot to give me the wake-up call I had ordered. Also for the first time ever, a restaurant lost my reservation. Until this year, I'd ordered dozens of wake-up calls and made dozens of reservations, all without incident.

2. I parked at a garage in Chicago's Union Station. There was a sign saying I should pay at the automated machine in the ground floor lobby. I looked all over for this machine and couldn't find it. I asked 4 different people where this machine was, and they gave me 4 different answers. In the end, I paid using the machine at the exit, which was not where the sign said it was.

3. I also had to pay a lot more than I wanted, because the Amtrak train I was waiting for was 2 hours late. Of course, Amtrak has always been notorious for this. Rationally I should have waited a while before driving to the station. But there is always hope that their schedule might actually correspond to reality some of the time.

4. In restaurants and shops, lots of people who are supposed to help you seem to have no clue. Waiters can't tell you anything about the dish you asked about. Sales people have only the vaguest acquaintance with the products they're supposedly selling.

5. Just last week, a very important item was lost, either by the post office or by the recipient. Luckily, I had a receipt for it with a tracking number, and we were able to get things sorted out. But again, this is the sort of thing that never happened to me before when I lived in the USA.

So, I have a question: Is my impression correct? Is the American workforce becoming grossly incompetent in recent years? Or has this been the case for a long time, and I've only noticed it recently? Your feedback please.

[Gurn Blanston]

I think it has been the case at some level forever, actually. However, in a non-specific way I feel it is getting worse. It most certainly is not getting better. There are exceptions to everything, of course, there are a certain percentage of outstanding employees out there, but for the most part, what I see is a lot of people who simply resent the fact that they have to put out some small effort to earn their pay. I suppose in an ideal world, the <>20% of the population who really works at what they do can/would support the majority of lazy morons so they can have plenty of time to reproduce themselves.

I doubt this problem is an exclusive property of America. Perhaps it is more noticeable now because it is growing? 

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I think it has been the case at some level forever, actually. However, in a non-specific way I feel it is getting worse. It most certainly is not getting better.

I posted my experiences on another forum, and a couple of people suggested it was a result of two factors: 1. growing automation and 2. elimination of jobs so that few people now do the work of many. They may be right.

However, I would think that in this economy, with unemployment through the roof, people would want to do their work competently, just to avoid being canned. Somehow, it's not working out that way.

As to my points 2 and 3, they probably just reflect the long-standing American neglect of passenger rail.

[mc ukrneal]

To be honest, I think it is just luck (good and bad). You got lucky when things seemed good. Things weren't as good as you thought. That said, you got unlucky with the others. It isn't as bad as all that either.

[The new erato]

I posted my experiences on another forum, and a couple of people suggested it was a result of two factors: 1. growing automation and 2. elimination of jobs so that few people now do the work of many. They may be right.

However, I would think that in this economy, with unemployment through the roof, people would want to do their work competently, just to avoid being canned. Somehow, it's not working out that way.

As to my points 2 and 3, they probably just reflect the long-standing American neglect of passenger rail.

I would think that in this economy, with unemployment through the roof, people would have other things to do than post on bulletin boards. So Ha!

[Brahmsian]

I doubt this problem is an exclusive property of America. Perhaps it is more noticeable now because it is growing? 

You are right about that, Gurn! 

I echo the sentiment about general customer service (people not knowing the products they sell or carry, or a waiter not knowing what is in a particular dish, etc.)  It is really, really quite astonishing!

The excuse of giving them the benefit of the doubt, because perhaps it is their first day or week on the job, can only be applied so many times!!!   

I'm talking about Canada, not the USA.

[The new erato]

You are right about that, Gurn! 

I echo the sentiment about general customer service (people not knowing the products they sell or carry, or a waiter not knowing what is in a particular dish, etc.)  It is really, really quite astonishing!

It's that way everywhere.

[Brahmsian]

It's that way everywhere.

Man, that is really sad. 

[ibanezmonster]

I don't know if you've ever worked for a store or not, but if there are 10 different departments and you work in one, they might switch you into another department (whether you like it or not) without training you much on the new department, or possibly training you gradually over time.

[Daverz]

4. In restaurants and shops, lots of people who are supposed to help you seem to have no clue. Waiters can't tell you anything about the dish you asked about. Sales people have only the vaguest acquaintance with the products they're supposedly selling.

Ultimately the fault of the management, of course, and I suspect they just don't want to "waste" time with training.  Or turnover is so high that workers have no time to become familiar with the product.

[Gurn Blanston]

I don't know if you've ever worked for a store or not, but if there are 10 different departments and you work in one, they might switch you into another department (whether you like it or not) without training you much on the new department, or possibly training you gradually over time.

That only holds good for the first little while though. If the employer doesn't have the management savvy to train you, then you, as an employee who values his job and customer relationships, will have made an effort to learn some of this on your own, yes? Of course.

[ibanezmonster]

That only holds good for the first little while though. If the employer doesn't have the management savvy to train you, then you, as an employee who values his job and customer relationships, will have made an effort to learn some of this on your own, yes? Of course.

They don't do that to me, but for others, it can be them helping out for just a couple of weeks, because the department desperately needs help. Then they are too busy helping with the department to have much training.

[Bulldog]

Here's something that has been bothering and puzzling me lately. First, some background: I'm a US citizen, but have been living abroad since 2005. I visit the US once or twice a year, for not more than 2 weeks at a time.

Just in the last couple of years, during my visits, I have noticed a vast increase in what one might call "casual incompetence" in American life. Here are examples:

1. For the first time ever, a hotel forgot to give me the wake-up call I had ordered. Also for the first time ever, a restaurant lost my reservation. Until this year, I'd ordered dozens of wake-up calls and made dozens of reservations, all without incident.

2. I parked at a garage in Chicago's Union Station. There was a sign saying I should pay at the automated machine in the ground floor lobby. I looked all over for this machine and couldn't find it. I asked 4 different people where this machine was, and they gave me 4 different answers. In the end, I paid using the machine at the exit, which was not where the sign said it was.

3. I also had to pay a lot more than I wanted, because the Amtrak train I was waiting for was 2 hours late. Of course, Amtrak has always been notorious for this. Rationally I should have waited a while before driving to the station. But there is always hope that their schedule might actually correspond to reality some of the time.

4. In restaurants and shops, lots of people who are supposed to help you seem to have no clue. Waiters can't tell you anything about the dish you asked about. Sales people have only the vaguest acquaintance with the products they're supposedly selling.

5. Just last week, a very important item was lost, either by the post office or by the recipient. Luckily, I had a receipt for it with a tracking number, and we were able to get things sorted out. But again, this is the sort of thing that never happened to me before when I lived in the USA.

So, I have a question: Is my impression correct? Is the American workforce becoming grossly incompetent in recent years? Or has this been the case for a long time, and I've only noticed it recently? Your feedback please.

I don't agree with any of the above grousing, finding that service in the U.S. is quite good and has been that way for many decades.  Certainly better than on my excursions in Europe (particularly Italy where they try to get every last penny out of your pockets).

[Todd]

However, I would think that in this economy, with unemployment through the roof, people would want to do their work competently, just to avoid being canned.

Oh, I would never think that.  My experience with workers and managers at all levels is at odds with that.  My wife conveyed to me a humorous interview story last week, where she was interviewing someone for a customer service role and the interviewee revealed she was fired from her last job for poor customer service and that she does not like dealing with old women.  Said interviewee then started discussing starting dates, etc, as though she was going to get the job.  And the saddest part of all is that she wasn't even the worst candidate.  Some people are inherently incompetent.

That written, I can't say that I've noticed a stark increase in the level of incompetence recently.

[DavidW]

Ultimately the fault of the management, of course, and I suspect they just don't want to "waste" time with training.  Or turnover is so high that workers have no time to become familiar with the product.

My sister has had that kind of experience in most of her jobs.  She will be asked to do things she is not qualified to do and has to teach herself because they don't want to hire an accountant or a paralegal... usually without even receiving training.

If someone shows an attitude, or appears to be apathetic, I blame them.  If they seem sincerely interested in helping you but are incompetent I blame the management for not training them or not hiring a person more qualified (to save money on salary).

[Szykneij]

I don't agree with any of the above grousing, finding that service in the U.S. is quite good and has been that way for many decades.

I feel the same way. I could never work in the service industry (as do people I know) and put up with the obnoxious and condescending behavior I observe in some patrons at restaurants and check-out lines. Usually, If you're a sensible and considerate customer, most problems are minimized and transactions are pleasant experiences. But if you're looking for something to grouse about, you can find that just about anywhere -- even in the Groussian Federation.

[Herman]

Income in service jobs in the US have been going down for the past thirty years.

That's why.

These people are working two or three jobs.

[MishaK]

Income in service jobs in the US have been going down for the past thirty years.

That's why.

These people are working two or three jobs.

Bingo! Or put another way: the pressures from above to cut costs result in management hiring less and less qualified workers for lower and lower wages for occupations that previously used to be filled by seim-competent people who could actually help you with a problem and had a comprehension of the task they are meant to fulfill. If you want to hire only people at minimum wage, then you get minimum service. You get what you pay for. In either case, the fish stinks from the head. It's not so much the people you interact with who are at fault, but the people who insist on hiring the cheapest labor possible and then skimp on training to boot.

[drogulus]

Income in service jobs in the US have been going down for the past thirty years.

That's why.

These people are working two or three jobs.

     There is also less training. The workforce has been dumbed down and paid down. The value of a job has been decreased. In a way the decline is hidden because most people have jobs and easy credit has obscured the loss of income. But it's reached the point where people can no longer borrow their way to prosperity, the financial meltdown took care of that. By the way, the level of personal indebtedness is a bigger problem than the national debt. Consumer spending drives the economy, and if people pay down their debt, as they are now doing, they can't spend to revive the economy. We need to find a way to raise the income of workers, not the limit on their credit cards.

[Todd]

Bingo! Or put another way: the pressures from above to cut costs result in management hiring less and less qualified workers for lower and lower wages for occupations that previously used to be filled by seim-competent people who could actually help you with a problem and had a comprehension of the task they are meant to fulfill. If you want to hire only people at minimum wage, then you get minimum service. You get what you pay for. In either case, the fish stinks from the head. It's not so much the people you interact with who are at fault, but the people who insist on hiring the cheapest labor possible and then skimp on training to boot.

An false description of reality.  I can use two concrete, albeit anecdotal examples.  First, my wife is trying to hire for a position that pays well above the state average wage and has health care benefits that most people would kill for ($60/month premiums for a family, $5 co-pays, etc), yet the pool of people who have applied are basically talentless with bad attitudes.  As for the people she currently works with, well, they had one employee who threatened to kill a fellow employee and was ultimately only fired after threatening a patient.  Her employer offers extensive online and in-person training (as in weeks of training to start, and on-going training thereafter), yet they still end up with some people who are, shall we say, less than ideal.

I'm also trying to hire for a position, and as much as I hear that there is a weak economy, I run into some real doozies, and I cut out people without college degrees immediately, and the salary I get to hire at is also rather far above the state average.  Every time I have to hire people I run into this situation.  But I suppose it's all the fault of employers not offering enough training, right?  At what point are employees expected to take some initiative, again?

Granted, my experience is anecdotal.  Maybe I live in an isolated pocket and your description is an accurate portrayal of life.  Do you have hard evidence to support it?