More (XStrav-Vares-ssiaen-nakis) Please

[snyprrr]

Stravinsky- Le Sacre du Printemps
Varese- Ameriques, Arcana
Messiaen- Turangalila Symphony
Xenakis- Metastasis, Pithoprakta
Ruggles- Sun-Treader
Murail- Gondwana
Scelsi- haven't listened to the orchestral yet
Stockhausen- Inori, Ylem


I know I'm treading the compost heap here (meaning, we're all well family with this family of Pull-Out-All-the-Stops Music), but, what 20th Century Masterpieces am I missing off the top here? I guess the first four examples are what I'm going after (well, and Ruggles too),... the Mold Breakers,... or the Giant Granite Slabs,...

Krenek or Toch?

You'll notice that these pieces all are really very tightly constructed,... and bald in places,... so, I'm not looking for 'loudest',... some Villa-Lobos comes close (Erosion),... Pettersson not so much (for the purposes here),...

I guess I'm asking, because I really think that these ARE the pieces, and, we would know of others if there were others. Surely I'm making a glaring omission, but, other than a couple of brain farts, what other pieces are there (Schnittke 1?)?

Anyhow, translate at will!

[Grazioso]

I just blew out a synapse trying to read that  What's the question?

[snyprrr]

I just blew out a synapse trying to read that  What's the question?

Just more in the style of the pieces mentioned, especially the top few,... maybe we had that 'Ritual Music' Thread??,...uh,... you wanted me to what?,... oh! ,... The Question,... uh ,...what was the question again?

[snyprrr]

Would Miraculous Mandarin belong on that list? Definitely not the CFO.

I don't think I'm shooting for the Szymanowski/hallucinatory sound here,... which would really include some of the Villa-Lobos,...

I think, obviously, Chavez Symphony No.1 belongs.


I know someone out there knows exactly what I'm shooting for. Like I said, this may be most of the list.

[Sergeant Rock]

Prokofiev Symphonies 2 and 3. Vaughan Williams 4.

Sarge

[Grazioso]

Something reminiscent of Sacre?

Sensemaya by Revueltas

[DieNacht]

- Scelsi, the Wyttenbach/accord recordings (Hurqualia, Uaxcuctum, Aion)

- Nørgård: Symphonys 5; Piano Cto, Percussion Concerto For A Change (Mortensen recording)
- Isang Yun: Symphonies
- Henry Brant: Litany of Tides
- Lucia Dlugoszewski: Fire Fragile Flight
- Vinko Globokar: Der Engel der Geschichte

Most of the Vermeulen symphonies qualify also, apparently partly due to some rather loud interpretations by the conductors (including Rozhdestvensky), but I would prefer a more lyrical approach.

... ...

[snyprrr]

- Scelsi, the Wyttenbach/accord recordings (Hurqualia, Uaxcuctum, Aion)

- Nørgård: Symphonys 5; Piano Cto, Percussion Concerto For A Change (Mortensen recording)
- Isang Yun: Symphonies
- Henry Brant: Litany of Tides
- Lucia Dlugoszewski: Fire Fragile Flight
- Vinko Globokar: Der Engel der Geschichte

Most of the Vermeulen symphonies qualify also, apparently partly due to some rather loud interpretations by the conductors (including Rozhdestvensky), but I would prefer a more lyrical approach.

... ...

R U Incredibly reading my mind or what?? All I have here is the Yun, but, yes, you're right. I'll get them out.

I was just looking through the CRI Catalog and remembered Dlugo's name, though I haven't yet heard,... she has very interesting Titles. And thanks for cutting to the chase with Globokar and Brant,... I would go mad finding my Goldilocks with them: I look forward to checking those pieces out.

Norgard was also a duh moment! Of course!!

Prokofiev Symphonies 2 and 3. Vaughan Williams 4.

Sarge

And yes, that's what I'm looking for. See,... we know!

Something reminiscent of Sacre?

Sensemaya by Revueltas

And of course, that RCA set!



See, just within a few posts, many of the holes have been filled in. Great job guys!!

I might also add that Ligeti Concertos/DG disc.



I was just listening to the Henze Symphonies 2-4, which reminded me that I've never plunged into Hartmann; I don't think I've gone through one of his. Also, I thought the raves over the molten lava flowing from BA Zimmermann's Sinfonie in Einem Satz were slightly over-Ruggled.

You know, I like what the skyscraper did to orchestral music.

[snyprrr]

Something reminiscent of Sacre?

Sensemaya by Revueltas

Actually, the opening of Noche de los Mayas (is that it?), is pretty CinemaScope.

[snyprrr]

I feel like this type of music should, properly, be labeled Horror Music, but not the kind that has been popularized/stereotyped (though of course certain elements are undeniable). Or Apocalypse Music,... I suppose Orff gets a nod here. I mean, the states of 'human' expression that are expressed in these tone poems are all the paler, to brutal, tones,... angst beyond angst, rapture beyond rapture.

Le Sacre seems like such a Jules Verne futuristic, yet primal, discovery. Didn't it 'just come to' Igor?

Anyhow, those elemental drum pounds (especially in the Muti!) really are Horrific,... Motoric in an abattoir like way.

Xenakis took those same elemental rhythms, and divorced them from 'human' expression, and linked them to external 'forces', concentrating and proliferating the violence.

Messiaen and Varese appear to be the most block-like of all, which seems to illuminate a feature of all these Musics: their seemingly artificial, yet inextricable, facade of granite marble, separated by either noodling or silence.

Perhaps Feldman's Violin & Orchestra qualifies.

[petrarch]

Friedrich Cerha, Spiegel I-VII
James Dillon, Helle Nacht
James Dillon, Ignis noster
James Dillon, Überschreiten
Julio Estrada, eua-on-ome
Emmanuel Nunes, Quodlibet
...and, of course, Rihm's Klangbeschreibungen, Morphonie, Dis-/Sub-Kontur, etc!

[DieNacht]

I was just looking through the CRI Catalog and remembered Dlugo's name, though I haven't yet heard,... she has very interesting Titles. And thanks for cutting to the chase with Globokar and Brant,... I would go mad finding my Goldilocks with them: I look forward to checking those pieces out.

The Dlugoszewski is an absolutely wonderful piece, but crisp, often lyrical and only loud in a few moments ... What qualifies it IMO is the jungle-sounding anarchy of the many isolated voices - but in a good, mysterious way !

The Brant "Litany" is a violin concertante piece with long, rather melodic lines inserted, producing a sort of ebb-and-flow effect.

Friedrich Cerha, Spiegel I-VII
James Dillon, Helle Nacht
James Dillon, Ignis noster
James Dillon, Überschreiten
Julio Estrada, eua-on-ome
Emmanuel Nunes, Quodlibet
...and, of course, Rihm's Klangbeschreibungen, Morphonie, Dis-/Sub-Kontur, etc!

Will dig there, never heard any of this, except Rihm ...

[Guido]

Ives: Browning Overture. And also the reconstructed Emerson Concerto. Both Elemental striving juggernaughts. Neither are my favourite (I prefer the epic beauty of the fourth symphony, The sets etc.) but both make a big impact, anD you should definitely know them both. The reconstruction is very impressive I think as the Emerson movement of the concord sonata is one of the most striving, sprawling behemoths in music.

Also:

Prokofiev Scythian Suite - it's so much influenced by the Rite, and written just a few years later. Fun!

[pjme]

Bolesław Szabelski (3 December 1896 in Radoryż - 27 August 1979 Katowice) . While his style shifted and varied over the course of his life, he is best known for his atonal work composed during the 1950s and 1960s.


His 5th symphony was once available on the Olympia label. Scored for large orchestra, wordless choir and concertante organ.
definitely an aural jugernaut.

read:http://books.google.be/books?id=XT-ReqNMSx0C&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=szabelski+5th+symphony&source=bl&ots=CzdSoA2HiU&sig=HLUvjkLobiABgByXxfmT6XznXrk&hl=nl#v=onepage&q&f=false

[snyprrr]

The Question with 2 Answers by Dallapiccola I would consider a very very distanced version of what I'm shooting for. It has a very rocklike facade, though comparatively softer than,... kind of like Ruggles-as-written-by-Feldman?


btw- the Posts keep getting better and better! Lots of really cool stuff here. Thanks again!!

[snyprrr]

Copland Connotions, and Inscape

[Mirror Image]

Also:

Prokofiev Scythian Suite - it's so much influenced by the Rite, and written just a few years later. Fun!

Yes, most definitely...

http://www.youtube.com/v/sfQb6BKq_ZU

[Mirror Image]

Here's another one: Ginastera's Estancia ballet...

http://www.youtube.com/v/LPqiRTEFWf8

Dudamel is in his element here.

[Mirror Image]

Actually, the opening of Noche de los Mayas (is that it?), is pretty CinemaScope.

I believe it's the second or final movement where this huge percussion line comes in and gives the work an Earthy stomp that's more Stravinsky-like than Sensemaya. I think Sensemaya, though aesthetically different than Ravel's Bolero, follows along the same kind of compositional structure whose main motif keeps building throughout the work. Stravinsky, however, is always changing and doesn't linger with the same kinds of rhythms too long and this couldn't be more evident than his Rite of Spring where spontaneity is more prominent.

[snyprrr]

what is this thread asking?

I think Guido got it right: we're looking for "striving elemental juggernauts".