Composers you don't get

[Jay F]

It's a wonderful piece. If you've heard his "Verklarte Nacht", it's like that taken a few steps further in terms of modernism (if you haven't heard "Verklarte Nacht" you'd probably like that, too). Kind of like an emotional roller coaster ride, but with mostly positive/passionate emotions (at least, that's how it makes me feel -- someone on here said it leaves them cold, so everyone hears it differently).

Allow me to go against the grain and recommend Schoenberg's own full orchestration of the work (originally for a chamber orchestra 15 players). I wouldn't normally, but since you are coming from Mahler you might get more out of it. The original is great, too.
[asin]B00369K1GA[/asin]

Yes, I have heard Verklarte Nacht. It came with Chailly's first Mahler recording, a complete version of No. 10. It has never made much of an impression one way or the other, but neither did his M10. I will try the Simon Rattle version. He did a Berg/Schoenberg/Webern CD I like very much. I was going to look for this by him in any case, so I'm glad you like him, too.

[Madiel]

Verklarte Nacht is, of course, supposed to be chamber music.

*wanders off grumbling about orchestrations left, right and centre*

[Madiel]

although listening through this batch did cause me to wonder how does a composition come to be categorized as a symphony.

It wasn't exactly a settled category at the time these were composed. You're listening to pieces from the period when the form was developing.

You're also, of course, listening to things composed by Mozart between the ages of 8 and 17 (except symphonies 2 and 3 which aren't even his). I wouldn't expect an enormous amount of depth, even from child geniuses.

[Pat B]

40 in g minor is often I think misplayed. The opening is not upbeat. It is music of dread and apprehension, like near the end of Don Giovanni. 

An interesting comment. I might not choose the word "dread" but it has always been gloomy to me -- definitely not cheerful music. I may have imprinted on Bernstein/DG, but now I also have Hogwood and Tafelmusik. I haven't played it in months, so I'll try to put one of those on tomorrow, and listen for any upbeatness.

[bwv 1080]

Finnissey - its seems to be pastiche without passion, too subtle for me and I could care less about the references

[The new erato]

An interesting comment. I might not choose the word "dread" but it has always been gloomy to me -- definitely not cheerful music. I may have imprinted on Bernstein/DG, but now I also have Hogwood and Tafelmusik. I haven't played it in months, so I'll try to put one of those on tomorrow, and listen for any upbeatness.

Mozart in g minor is always something special, gloomy and tragic are words I would choose.

[Mandryka]

Finnissey

Yes, feel a bit the same way. I wonder if there are any fans here, people who connect with the music who could talk it up a bit.  One thing I would say is that I find Ian Pace not the most communicative of pianists (Nicolas Hodges better)

[Mandryka]

Made it through Mozart's first 24 symphonies:

01 Hogwood
02 Ward
03 Leinsdorf
04 Hogwood
05 Leinsdorf
06 Linden
07 Hogwood
08 Linden
09 ?
10 ?
11 ?
12 Aslan
13 Linden
14 Linden
15 Linden
16 Linden
17 Linden
18 Linden
19 Hogwood
20 Linden
21 Linden
22 Linden
23 Koopman
24 Linden

Bloody hell. You're a braver man than me. One of these early symphonies was used to great effect in a Martin Scorsese film called "After Hours"

[Jo498]

When I listened to all Haydn symphonies (most of which I had heard before) around 2009 over a year, I always took one early and one late, e.g. 1+104, 2 +103 etc. So one does not get bogged down in early works or listens only to the most famous late ones for weeks.

Of Mozart's I remember Nr. 14 and 20 as quite charming, if I do not confuse the numbers. But admittedly, I hardly ever listen to any before 25 (which has been a favorite since I first heard it as a teenager).

[EigenUser]

When I listened to all Haydn symphonies (most of which I had heard before) around 2009 over a year, I always took one early and one late, e.g. 1+104, 2 +103 etc. So one does not get bogged down in early works or listens only to the most famous late ones for weeks.

That's a brilliant idea! Too late for me, I guess. I've just been going through the ones I have the score to first and hearing them a few times. I'm trying to take my time. It would be easy to sit down and play all 104 of them over the course of a week or so, but I probably wouldn't remember any of them. It sounds silly, but every now and again I like testing myself and seeing if I can think of a random number from the ones I've heard and humming a melody from one of the movements (sometimes I can, sometimes I can't). So far I've heard 35 or so over the past three months.

By the way, something interesting I've noticed about "composers I don't get" (or don't like) is that when I show a friend music that I don't care for and they like it or find it interesting, I re-evaluate my own opinion (I'm very impressionable ). Last March I was visiting a friend in NYC who loves/plays music (and is very interested in classical music, though not his main area). I saw he had the Sgt. Pepper's album on his wall in his apartment, so I pointed to a sketchy-looking figure in the very back of the crowd -- Karlheinz Stockhausen:


We went to his computer and I played Kontakte for him (he turned up the volume quite loud, too). I was surprised at his reaction -- the wooshing electronic sounds made his eyes dart from one side of the room to the other. I don't think he would listen to it regularly, but he was absolutely intrigued by it.

Similarly, last week I showed a friend Crumb's Black Angels. I was shocked when he said he liked it (he loves classical, but not as much modern as I do). I'm not entirely sure if he was joking, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't.

[Jo498]

The Haydn symphony listening was supposed to be spread over one year, doing two symphonies a week, starting in 2008 and some people in a german language forum did participate, although for several reasons it was never completely finished (a handful or two symphonies around 53 are still left over).

you can get all the scores online here:

http://www.haydn107.com/index.php?id=2&lng=1

[Jay F]

Made it through Mozart's first 24 symphonies. [...] To use a food analogy, I'd call them snack symphonies, tastes good but is altogether unfulfilling.

Mozart starts to become a real taste treat at #25.

[Ken B]

Ha! The music isn't bad at all. Just sort of blase. It's light, joyful, delightful. No. 25 through No. 35 today. I will say the amount of choices I have has improved quite a bit, and the works are all quite a bit meatier. None of the works have caught my ear yet, but I have enjoyed them, for at least a one-time listen. I can't imagine revisiting any of these pieces again, unless I come across some compelling reason. The music is still light. The music is still delightful, but it doesn't satiate, at least it doesn't satiate me. I don't feel like I'm wasting my time though, as I am enjoying this traversal quite a bit. Just nothing that has intrigued me yet.

25 Marriner
26 Linden
27 Bohm
28 Bohm
29 Karajan
30 Linden
31 Harnoncourt
32 Frieman
33 Kleiber
34 Bohm
35 Bohm

Indeed. Much of this stuff is juvenilia too. Nice but not great music. It gets better with 36 and 38, and the we get to the good stuff.
I am interested to see how you feel about the last 3. When I point out the obvious, they are on a higher plane, the lynch mobs form ... 

[Pat B]

Ha! The music isn't bad at all. Just sort of blase. It's light, joyful, delightful. No. 25 through No. 35 today. I will say the amount of choices I have has improved quite a bit, and the works are all quite a bit meatier. None of the works have caught my ear yet, but I have enjoyed them, for at least a one-time listen. I can't imagine revisiting any of these pieces again, unless I come across some compelling reason. The music is still light. The music is still delightful, but it doesn't satiate, at least it doesn't satiate me. I don't feel like I'm wasting my time though, as I am enjoying this traversal quite a bit. Just nothing that has intrigued me yet.

I won't disagree with Ken about the last 3, but I like 25 and 38 a lot too. I haven't heard Marriner's 25, but elsewhere he can be too polite for my taste. It might be worth listening to a different recording, after you finish your marathon.

I'm now listening to Tafelmusik's 40 as promised. Some sunlight shines through occasionally but the darkness is never far away. I hope that wasn't too much of a cliché. Anyway, I like it.

[Jo498]

I'd rather listen to Mozart's 29, 33 or 34 than to most I have heard by Elgar, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams. They are worthy pieces, if not as great as his last four.

[vandermolen]

Mozart....apart from the last three symphonies.
Late Mahler.
Delius.
Rachmaninov...apart from the First Symphony and "The Bells".
Skalkottas.
Webern.

Largely agree with this although I like Mahler's 7th,9th and what exists of the 10th Symphony. I like some Delius (In a Summer Garden, the Piano Concerto and the Requiem) but not much. I listen to no Mozart but like the Clarinet Concerto. I would add Richard Strauss, Nicholas Maw, York Bowen, Elizabeth Lutyens and there are many more!

[amw]

Mozart's music is the most profoundly human ever composed I think. But all the deepest, lightest, saddest, happiest, most memorable, etc music he composed—the stuff worth listening to more than once—is accounted for in some 60-70 works I'm estimating. Though subjective of course I think most people's lists won't be too dissimilar:

Nozze / DG / Cosi / Zauberflöte
Requiem / C Minor Mass
Piano Concertos 9 / 15 / 16 / 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 / 22 / 23 / 24 / 25 / 26 / 27
Sinfonia Concertante
Clarinet Concerto
Symphonies 38 / 39 / 40 / 41
The last ten string quartets
String quintets 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6
Clarinet quintet
"Kegelstatt" Trio
Piano quartets
Divertimento for string trio K563
Some of the piano and violin sonatas (almost certainly K310, 457/475, 576, 379 and 526, but this depends on the listener I guess)
Gran Partita K361
[remaining spaces left open for subjectivity]

Not that there's anything wrong with the other works, just that these in particular seem on a higher plane, and are difficult to even compare with the others. By comparison, with Haydn virtually all of the works are of the same (high, if perhaps not quite as sublime as Mozart's greatest) quality, containing so many surprises, emotional extremes and memorable ideas as to make his output seem inexhaustible.

Anyway, for "composers I don't get"... Merzbow.

[Mandryka]

Mozart's music is the most profoundly human ever composed I think. But all the deepest, lightest, saddest, happiest, most memorable, etc music he composed—the stuff worth listening to more than once—is accounted for in some 60-70 works I'm estimating. Though subjective of course I think most people's lists won't be too dissimilar:

Nozze / DG / Cosi / Zauberflöte
Requiem / C Minor Mass
Piano Concertos 9 / 15 / 16 / 17 / 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 / 22 / 23 / 24 / 25 / 26 / 27
Sinfonia Concertante
Clarinet Concerto
Symphonies 38 / 39 / 40 / 41
The last ten string quartets
String quintets 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6
Clarinet quintet
"Kegelstatt" Trio
Piano quartets
Divertimento for string trio K563
Some of the piano and violin sonatas (almost certainly K310, 457/475, 576, 379 and 526, but this depends on the listener I guess)
Gran Partita K361
[remaining spaces left open for subjectivity]

Not that there's anything wrong with the other works, just that these in particular seem on a higher plane, and are difficult to even compare with the others. By comparison, with Haydn virtually all of the works are of the same (high, if perhaps not quite as sublime as Mozart's greatest) quality, containing so many surprises, emotional extremes and memorable ideas as to make his output seem inexhaustible.

Anyway, for "composers I don't get"... Merzbow.

One thing that struck me straight away is that there's a tough side to Mozart's music which is sometimes overlooked and yet, IMO, gave rise to some of his most interesting music. I'm thinking of things like the Fantasia and Fugue in F minor, the  Adagio and Fugue in C minor for string quartet and Adagio in B minor for piano. I expect there are others I can't think of.

[Brian]

37 Leinsdorf

Might wanna read this if you haven't already.

And if you didn't listen to any period-instrument recordings, you might want to retry 38-41 some day with Rene Jacobs and the Freiburg Baroque Orchestra. (Mackerras/Scottish Chamber Orchestra is my favorite modern-instrument version; as bold and lively as neon lights.)

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/v/d5UHKFI25YE

[Mandryka]

Completed my Mozart Symphony cycle listen. Today was 36-41, and my prior statements still stand. I don't feel bad for having listened to these symphonies. I just don't feel anything drawing me in or even drawing me back to relisten to any of them SAVE No. 36. This is the one symphony in which I came away invigorated to go back and discover those lost nuances. It was moving and exciting and was the single symphony that didn't sound like it was just a piece of a quilt. No. 36 stood out to me, and simply discovering that fact, made this whole project worthwhile.

36 Bohm (Relisten)
37 Leinsdorf
38 Honek
39 Harnoncourt
40 Bernstein
41 Haitink

Well if you like 36 so much I'll let you know that there's a sort of stand-out version which many people, including myself, cherish. That's the one by Brüggen on Philips.