Beethoven Symphonies HIP

[Brian]

Well, I may just have to learn the hard way.  If it makes you feel any better I will be happy to report back that you're correct if I find myself feeling that way.

That's fine by me! 

[Gurn Blanston]

Now to be fair I didn't mind him too much until he started going on about how the Immerseel set was terrible.  Anyone who does that loses my allegiance.   That said, I can understand how he got compared to Santa Fe Listener; that fellow is also...very confident in his opinions, shall we say?

I think that a real (I call it a problem, I'm sure he doesn't) issue for Rod is that there is only 1 version that is the right one. Every other one is shit. Of course this can't possibly be true, but there it is. He's the one who turned me on to the Castle Trio, BTW... every other trio is shit.... 

Rod, like M, had some interesting and intelligent contributions to make but often let his mouth bypass his brain (Something I, of course, know nothing about... ) so I can see how he ended up disappearing.  Personally, I liked many of the contributions M had to make, but it feels nice to be able to freely discuss music and recordings without being accused of being a philistine because I happen to inadvertently trip one of an irritable members' switches.

And of course, this is a long-standing issue. Without getting deeply into it, there are those who felt that it simply didn't matter how rude some members got, their contributions outweighed that. In the long run, it just couldn't work. Dozens of good solid members left and never returned on both sides of the issue.

Sounds reasonable to me; not everyone needs twenty boxes of Beethoven symphonies.   On the other hand that Savall Eroica is quite hard to find now, running about $35 for a copy at minimum on Amazon.

To demonstrate my patience, I first discovered that disk in 2005 (from Rod!!) and a friend sent me the MP3's of it. At the time it was between $65 and $100 on AMP. I actually bought the disk itself within the last 6 months, for $21 "Like New" on the AMP. All things come to he who waits.   

[Rod Corkin]

Now to be fair I didn't mind him too much until he started going on about how the Immerseel set was terrible.  Anyone who does that loses my allegiance.   That said, I can understand how he got compared to Santa Fe Listener; that fellow is also...very confident in his opinions, shall we say?

Rod, like M, had some interesting and intelligent contributions to make but often let his mouth bypass his brain (Something I, of course, know nothing about... ) so I can see how he ended up disappearing.  Personally, I liked many of the contributions M had to make, but it feels nice to be able to freely discuss music and recordings without being accused of being a philistine because I happen to inadvertently trip one of an irritable members' switches.

LoL there is nothing wrong with my mouth, but if you think so highly of Immerseel's set you still have some way to go understanding Beethoven. FYI I dissappeared because of the poor management here (at the time at least), to the degree I felt compelled to create my own properly moderated forum, which alas I have barely any time for at the moment...

http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

[Octave]

LoL there is nothing wrong with my mouth, but if you think so highly of Imerseel's set you still have some way to go understanding Beethoven. FYI I dissappeared because of the poor management here (at the time at least), to the degree I felt compelled to create my own properly moderated forum, which alas I have barely any time for at the moment...
http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

UNLEASH CLASSICAL MUSIC IN YOUR LIFE.  UNLEASH IT!  NEVER BUY THE WRONG GEAR. 
YOU KNOW WHO TO CALL. 

[Elgarian]

if you think so highly of Immerseel's set you still have some way to go understanding Beethoven.

Speaking as someone who does think so highly of Immerseel's set, and has said so repeatedly, I can't recall ever claiming that I understood Beethoven, or that I ever hoped to. I merely expressed (and still delight in) my joy in discovering that he could rock my socks off better than Chuck Berry.

[The new erato]

Speaking as someone who does think so highly of Immerseel's set, and has said so repeatedly, I can't recall ever claiming that I understood Beethoven, or that I ever hoped to. I merely expressed (and still delight in) my joy in discovering that he could rock my socks off better than Chuck Berry.

That set wa a revelation to me as well.

[Geo Dude]

UNLEASH CLASSICAL MUSIC IN YOUR LIFE.  UNLEASH IT!  NEVER BUY THE WRONG GEAR. 
YOU KNOW WHO TO CALL. 

[The new erato]

FYI I dissappeared because of the poor management here (at the time at least), to the degree I felt compelled to create my own properly moderated forum, which alas I have barely any time for at the moment...

I detect some irony here.

[Octave]

(No disrespect, of course....some of my best friends are Yngwie fans.  Maybe not Fat Yngwie fans.  He does have the Elvis In Las Vegas thing kind of going, no?)

[Brian]

I detect some irony here.

Speaking as someone who does think so highly of Immerseel's set, and has said so repeatedly, I can't recall ever claiming that I understood Beethoven, or that I ever hoped to. I merely expressed (and still delight in) my joy in discovering that he could rock my socks off better than Chuck Berry.

Now I have no choice but to listen to Immerseel's Beethoven today. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Speaking as someone who does think so highly of Immerseel's set, and has said so repeatedly, I can't recall ever claiming that I understood Beethoven, or that I ever hoped to. I merely expressed (and still delight in) my joy in discovering that he could rock my socks off better than Chuck Berry.

There is no single interpretive POV that is the correct one. No matter how adamant the opposition on that subject, you are well able to resist it, as long as you don't fall into the same trap yourself. Thus my own tiny list (Hogwood, Immerseel, Gardiner, Savall, Herreweghe and Krivine) which is more noticeable for its diversity than for its sameness (despite being 100% PI). What I hoped for when I first delighted in your revelatory moment is that a door is now open to allow you to explore new takes on old subjects, so to say. You absolutely can and should revel in what you've discovered, and also use it as a springboard to discover more. As near as I can tell since then, you have done just that. ¡Bueno! 

[Octave]

There is no single interpretive POV that is the correct one. No matter how adamant the opposition on that subject, you are well able to resist it, as long as you don't fall into the same trap yourself. Thus my own tiny list (Hogwood, Immerseel, Gardiner, Savall, Herreweghe and Krivine) which is more noticeable for its diversity than for its sameness (despite being 100% PI). What I hoped for when I first delighted in your revelatory moment is that a door is now open to allow you to explore new takes on old subjects, so to say. You absolutely can and should revel in what you've discovered, and also use it as a springboard to discover more. As near as I can tell since then, you have done just that. ¡Bueno! 

This.  This is the ethic.
Also the Chuck Berry Test!  That's also a big plus.

In fact, I ordered the Immerseel set ten minutes ago thanks to this and previous discussion.  I owe several of you thanks for all the conversation about the options; but I only thanked Rod Corkin in the Purchases thread.

[Gurn Blanston]

LoL there is nothing wrong with my mouth, but if you think so highly of Immerseel's set you still have some way to go understanding Beethoven. FYI I dissappeared because of the poor management here (at the time at least), to the degree I felt compelled to create my own properly moderated forum, which alas I have barely any time for at the moment...

http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

Hello, Rod, you old rascal. I've warned the folks here about prising about in the wainscoting, but to no avail. Nice to see that you have maintained your Mayhem Central for the duration. I've always thought that having your own place was the best solution and see? It has done well just as I predicted.

It is especially pleasurable to see that we have provided you with brain fodder all along, maybe one day we will make you universal.... nah! 

[Geo Dude]

There is no single interpretive POV that is the correct one. No matter how adamant the opposition on that subject, you are well able to resist it, as long as you don't fall into the same trap yourself. Thus my own tiny list (Hogwood, Immerseel, Gardiner, Savall, Herreweghe and Krivine) which is more noticeable for its diversity than for its sameness (despite being 100% PI). What I hoped for when I first delighted in your revelatory moment is that a door is now open to allow you to explore new takes on old subjects, so to say. You absolutely can and should revel in what you've discovered, and also use it as a springboard to discover more. As near as I can tell since then, you have done just that. ¡Bueno! 

Surely you're not trying to suggest that our opinions are not facts, Gurn?

Also, I'll second Octave's comment on your post.

[Rod Corkin]

...It is especially pleasurable to see that we have provided you with brain fodder all along, maybe one day we will make you universal.... nah! 

My friend has it not always me doing the providing? At least you were wise enough to take some of that advice on board at at time when everyone else was bitching.. 

[Geo Dude]

My friend has it not always me doing the providing? At least you were wise enough to take some of that advice on board at at time when everyone else was bitching.. 

On that note, do you have any updated views on the best Beethoven interpretations?  I believe you mentioned Goodman some years ago as an example, do you still feel that's the best option?

[Wakefield]

This.  This is the an ethic.

I mean: in order to be consistent. 

[Wakefield]

My friend has it not always me doing the providing? At least you were wise enough to take some of that advice on board at at time when everyone else was bitching.. 

Rod shouldn't be simply "Jove the Mighty Thunderer", but Jove the "Almighty", the "Omniscient" Thunderer. Just yesterday his name was written here and today he's present delivering musical wisdom. Supernatural. 

[Gurn Blanston]

My friend has it not always me doing the providing? At least you were wise enough to take some of that advice on board at at time when everyone else was bitching.. 

But to be fair, that's because you never listened to what anyone else had to say. This makes it always a one-way street then, doesn't it? It isn't the things that you said were good, since yes, they always were. Lots of my favorites came from you. It's the things that you said were bad where, IMO, you erred. Most of them weren't/aren't bad at all. They are just a different take on things. If everyone played the same music (Beethoven & Handel only, of course) and played it in the identically same way, then we would only need 3 sets of instrumentalists: the current, the retired and the apprentices, all learning one from the next. If you can't imagine how badly that would suck, well, there's no help for it then.   

[mszczuj]

On that note, do you have any updated views on the best Beethoven interpretations?  I believe you mentioned Goodman some years ago as an example, do you still feel that's the best option?

This is the best option for me (I haven't heard Krivine yet). It is hated for the sound, I suppose. I have no problem with the reverb, listen to it with pleasure and really think so.