Beethoven Symphonies HIP

[knight66]

Not conflating them, Mike, but thinking of several different ax-grinding narcissists whose limited entertainment value depended on being laughed at, not with. Couldn't think of their names, and Pinkie didn't even come to mind else I'd certainly have added older-women's-panties-sniffing fetishist to the list.   

Ahhh ... the good old days!

Heck, I had clearly suppressed that last eccentricity and you have triggered a lot of bizarre detail that will haunt me. I promise, I will forgive you, but not today!

Mike

[Geo Dude]

No, there isn't anyone here to match Pink's refined taste . . . .

Ah, that brings back memories.  In our defense, though, he admitted once that Debussy himself would not match his refined taste if he wanted his works conducted in a method that did not match the Harp's preference; how then, can we expect to match his taste?   Come to think of it, I think Sarge had a related photoshop lying around somewhere...

[Karl Henning]

. . . I promise, I will forgive you, but not today!

Mike

One day at a time . . . .

[Sergeant Rock]

Ah, that brings back memories.  In our defense, though, he admitted once that Debussy himself would not match his refined taste if he wanted his works conducted in a method that did not match the Harp's preference; how then, can we expect to match his taste?   Come to think of it, I think Sarge had a related photoshop lying around somewhere...

This one?




But I didn't do it. I can't remember who did now, but it's a stroke of genius. Hopefully the creator will step forward and take credit. It captures the essence of Eric/Pink Harp (or as I liked to call him, Mr. Pink) perfectly.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

ROTFLMARAO

(rolling on the floor laughing my æsthetically refined arse off)

[Gurn Blanston]

This one?




But I didn't do it. I can't remember who did now, but it's a stroke of genius. Hopefully the creator will step forward and take credit. It captures the essence of Eric/Pink Harp (or as I liked to call him, Mr. Pink) perfectly.

Sarge

Short of having a pair of cougar briefs pulled down over his head.... *sigh*

[DavidRoss]

I've always supposed Immerseel rode a Harley-Davidson.

Motorcycle analogies! Barenboim is a six-cylinder BMW 1600 GT sport-tourer. Dausgaard, a Husqvarna TR650 Strada. Bernstein, a Harley Electra Glide. Immerseel, a Kawasaki Ninja 650. Brüggen is a classic Triumph Bonneville. And Goodman is an old Honda Rebel 250.

[Elgarian]

Motorcycle analogies! Barenboim is a six-cylinder BMW 1600 GT sport-tourer. Dausgaard, a Husqvarna TR650 Strada. Bernstein, a Harley Electra Glide. Immerseel, a Kawasaki Ninja 650. Brüggen is a classic Triumph Bonneville. And Goodman is an old Honda Rebel 250.

I am amazed by your comprehensive mastery of motorcycle lore, so you must be right.

[DavidRoss]

... you must be right.

Where have I heard that before?

Not around here!

Next up: Comparing Beethoven symphony cycles to Squaw Valley ski runs! Purebred dog breeds! And smelly cheeses of the world!

[Elgarian]

Where have I heard that before?
Not around here!

Maybe that's because others are not as easily amazed as I am.

[knight66]

David, a new analogy needed for Barenboim, he is ill and has cancelled his performances for at least a month.

Mike 

[Karl Henning]

He caught Jimmie's case of bad back (who knew that was catching?)

[DavidRoss]

David, a new analogy needed for Barenboim, he is ill and has cancelled his performances for at least a month.

Guess Dannyboi will be riding a La-Z-Boy instead of a Beemer scooter!

Anyone interested in a period video of a period performance?

http://www.youtube.com/v/l4SMxPjQJp8

[mark7]

I'm new here and somewhat new to classical music (compared to people here, I'm an infant in that regard  ), so I'm seeking some help and advice to guide me through the many choices we have for Beethoven's symphonies. I'm looking for a HIP set of Beethoven's symphonies on period instruments, and after some reading and searching, I've narrowed down my choices to either Hogwood, Gardiner or possible Immersel, with maybe Hogwood having a small edge at this moment. Which one would you recommend? Which is "more HIP", or more in the spirit of Beethoven's time, if that's even possible to determine? Or should I simply get the Hogwood set? And how does Immersel's set compare? Also, I believe I read on another site that Gardiner mixed period and modern instruments in his cycle, while Hogwood and some others are all on period instruments, is that true?

Thank you in advance.

[Carnivorous Sheep]

How familiar are you with the symphonies? If you are decently familiar with them already through non-HIP sets or otherwise, I would recommend the Immerseel. If you're relatively new, I'd recommend the Gardiner. I personally do not care much for the Hogwood.

For a secondary set of HIP symphonies, I'd like to plug the less well-known Bruggen.

I have not heard anything about the Gardiner/ORR being mixed instruments, and it doesn't sound like mixed instruments to me. HIP ensembles can sound quite different from one another though, and there is no one single "HIP sound" if that's what you're after.

[Brian]

For a secondary set of HIP symphonies, I'd like to plug the less well-known Bruggen.

Bruggen has the disadvantage of being out-of-print and almost impossible to find. It has the advantage of being awesome.

I did not know that Gardiner mixed instruments. His cycle is very very good, with a great Ninth, so you won't go wrong, but Immerseel's is also fantastic, with a great Fifth. Unlike some recent re-issues of the Gardiner set in budget price lines, Immerseel's set has a big booklet with essays and even photos of the instruments. (I think...it's been a while since I looked.)

Just to make matters more confusing, Hogwood has my favorite Fourth, but the Ninth is not that great and the recorded sound is older than the other two.

EDIT: You can sample before you buy on YouTube. Immerseel 5th, Gardiner 3rd. The others are around if you search for them.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm new here and somewhat new to classical music (compared to people here, I'm an infant in that regard  ), so I'm seeking some help and advice to guide me through the many choices we have for Beethoven's symphonies. I'm looking for a HIP set of Beethoven's symphonies on period instruments, and after some reading and searching, I've narrowed down my choices to either Hogwood, Gardiner or possible Immerseel, with maybe Hogwood having a small edge at this moment. Which one would you recommend? Which is "more HIP", or more in the spirit of Beethoven's time, if that's even possible to determine? Or should I simply get the Hogwood set? And how does Immersel's set compare? Also, I believe I read on another site that Gardiner mixed period and modern instruments in his cycle, while Hogwood and some others are all on period instruments, is that true?

Thank you in advance.

IMO, Hogwood is 'more HIP'. I wouldn't be without any of them, to tell you the truth. They each have their merits. One of the special things about PI bands is that each one has its own characteristic sound and playing style. This makes them far more like old time bands, which totally varied from town to town. Modern instruments and equal temperament have tended to make a more homogenous sound (that's not a criticism, merely an observation).

No, Gardiner did not mix modern instruments in with period ones, unless you are counting modern reproductions, which ALL PI bands use. There simply aren't enough actual old ones in playable condition to go around. I don't know any PI enthusiast who holds that against a band. I have listened to nothing but PI in this millennium, so I suspect I would have run across one by now.

As they present themselves, consider getting all three. I took a while and got them all at great prices, and I mix them up for my enjoyment regularly.

[Gurn Blanston]

How familiar are you with the symphonies? If you are decently familiar with them already through non-HIP sets or otherwise, I would recommend the Immerseel. If you're relatively new, I'd recommend the Gardiner. I personally do not care much for the Hogwood.

For a secondary set of HIP symphonies, I'd like to plug the less well-known Bruggen.

I have not heard anything about the Gardiner/ORR being mixed instruments, and it doesn't sound like mixed instruments to me. HIP ensembles can sound quite different from one another though, and there is no one single "HIP sound" if that's what you're after.

Maybe there is a set sitting for sale on the shelf in a back alley shop in Singapore or Timbuktu...   

[mark7]

OK, thank you for your quick and helpful suggestions. But I guess, as usual in music, everyone will have their own preferences and there's no single answer. Judging by the samples that I've heard so far, there isn't that big of a difference between the Hogwood and the Immerseel sets in terms of the general sound and presentation, but maybe I haven't heard enough. I am very familiar with some of the symphonies (like 9th), and much less familiar with some others. I'll try to hear some more samples then and see where that gets me.

Gurn, what would you say in general are the main upsides and downsides of each of these sets? That would help me sort it out. Thanks.

And no, I wouldn't hold using modern reproductions of period instruments against a PI band, especially for 18th century (or earlier) music.

[Brian]

I just did a spot comparison of the 5th symphony, 1st movement, between Bruggen, Hogwood, Immerseel, and Gardiner.

Gardiner sounds the most modern. In fact, if you turn it off after the famous opening chords, you won't have a clue if it's a period- or modern-instrument orchestra. I think he might also be using the biggest orchestra.

Hogwood, by contrast, sounds the most HIP, just like Gurn says. In those famous opening chords, you can really hear a strong dose of the sour-sounding oboe. The horns ring out as if they're on the steps of a Greek temple. The glorious woodwinds are why Hogwood's is my favorite Fourth.

Immerseel is conducted the most boldly. I mean, if you discount the seconds of silence before they start playing, the first movement takes only about 6:15! That's nutso. (And oh so exciting... mmmmm.  )

With Bruggen I found the incredibly slow "Fate" motif + much faster everything else off-putting and distracting. Almost like the symphony has an adagio introduction.