Unpopular Opinions

[Mahlerian]

I wouldn't put it in quite those terms, but I think of a symphony as use of sound to create an abstract musical narrative. Introduction of a text makes it something other than a symphony, as I think of it. It seems to me that Beethoven's 9th is a cantata by another name.

Can you think of any cantata using such a form?  The movement is structured as something like a rondo or a theme and variations (both common forms for a finale, even if stretched to unusual proportions here), and imitations of vocal music were already a part of Beethoven's symphonies, notably the Fifth.  It doesn't contain any stand-alone arias or parts that can function outside of the whole, and it ties up the discourse begun in the earlier movements.

[JRJoseph]

I can't seem to get a handle on Bartok's music.  It seems so harsh most of the time.  Also, hearing Bach's organ music for more than 10 minutes gets on my nerves.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I can't seem to get a handle on Bartok's music.  It seems so harsh most of the time.  Also, hearing Bach's organ music for more than 10 minutes gets on my nerves.

Remove the word Bach from your sentence and that is  my feeling as well.

[Monsieur Croche]

It bothers me when composers insert vocals into a symphony.

If there is not mutual consent between the symphony and the composer, the composer could be hauled in by the police, with some very serious legal charges -- and consequences -- coming their way.  Ditto if the symphony went about inserting vocals into the composer without the composer's permission.


Best regards

[DaveF]

There have never been four such great composers simultaneously working at the top of their game as in the two decades between 1575-94.  (Byrd, Palestrina, Lassus, Victoria.)

[Ken B]

There have never been four such great composers simultaneously working at the top of their game as in the two decades between 1575-94.  (Byrd, Palestrina, Lassus, Victoria.)

I hadn't thought of it quite that way. Very interesting observation!

[kishnevi]

There have never been four such great composers simultaneously working at the top of their game as in the two decades between 1575-94.  (Byrd, Palestrina, Lassus, Victoria.)

Perhaps not two decades, but
c. 1890
Brahms
Bruckner
Tchaikovsky
Sibelius
Debussy
Elgar
Verdi
Saint Saens
Mahler
Grieg

were all alive and producing music.

[Madiel]

Perhaps not two decades, but
c. 1890
Brahms
Bruckner
Tchaikovsky
Sibelius
Debussy
Elgar
Verdi
Saint Saens
Mahler
Grieg

were all alive and producing music.

The Chopin/Schumann/Liszt/Mendelssohn generation weren't too shabby either.

[Jo498]

1720-40: JS Bach, Handel, Vivaldi, F. Couperin, Telemann, Zelenka, Rameau, D. Scarlatti...
1820-40 Beethoven, Schubert, Berlioz, Rossini, Donizetti, Bellini, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Liszt....

[North Star]

1820-40 Beethoven, Schubert, Berlioz, Rossini, Donizetti, Bellini, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, Liszt....

Beethoven and Schubert were dead most of that time, and Chopin, Schumann and Liszt were kids in 1820. Dave was talking about a 20 y period during which a number of great composers were continuously in excellent form.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Perhaps not two decades, but
c. 1890
Brahms
Bruckner
Tchaikovsky
Sibelius
Debussy
Elgar
Verdi
Saint Saens
Mahler
Grieg

were all alive and producing music.

2016 was also quite a good year. 2017 hopefully will be too.

[Jo498]

o.k., but still 1830-50 would qualify for Berlioz, Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann (I know that some died a few years before the end of the decade)

And any two subsequent decades 1860-1950 would also work fine, I guess.

e.g. 1860-1880: Wagner, Verdi, Brahms, Bruckner...
1870-90: Verdi, Brahms, Bruckner, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Franck...
etc.

[Florestan]

There have never been four such great composers simultaneously working at the top of their game as in the two decades between 1575-94.  (Byrd, Palestrina, Lassus, Victoria.)

Don't know whether this is unpopular, but it's certainly false, as several previous posters have peremptorily showed.

[The new erato]

Don't know whether this is unpopular, but it's certainly false, as several previous posters have peremptorily showed.

These days it's popular to be false.

[Ken B]

Beethoven and Schubert were dead most of that time, and Chopin, Schumann and Liszt were kids in 1820. Ken was talking about a 20 y period during which a number of great composers were continuously in excellent form.

All true, but it's DaveF's observation, I cannot take credit for it.

[jochanaan]

Maybe I'm the complete opposite of you, I don't know but Bartok's music isn't harsh enough most of the time for me (but his quartets are quite consistently heavy)...

Miraculous Mandarin?  1st Piano Concerto?  Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion?

[DaveF]

While I agree with you, you're forgetting about literally every decade in the 20th century 

Well, no, I'm not - I'm as well acquainted with 20th-century music as with 16th-century.  Heck, nearly half of it was composed during my lifetime   If Bach, Haydn, Beethoven and Wagner had all been active at the same time, I might change my mind.  But in the end my opinion remains an opinion, and it remains unpopular - which is why it's in this thread.

[Madiel]

Having an unpopular opinion is very popular all of a sudden.

[Monsieur Croche]

If Bach, Haydn, Beethoven and Wagner had all been active at the same time, I might change my mind.  But in the end my opinion remains an opinion, and it remains unpopular - which is why it's in this thread.

You like those composers who were to their contemporaries the most avant-garde, cutting edge and 'experimental' composers of their time.  If you were alive then, the likelihood you would have preferred the older masters of former yester-years is high.

OMG, you're average!  Average opinions, as a rule, are not unpopular opinions.  Just sayin'

From any era of music, there are great riches to be had from other than "The Usual Suspects.


Best regards.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Well, no, I'm not - I'm as well acquainted with 20th-century music as with 16th-century.  Heck, nearly half of it was composed during my lifetime   If Bach, Haydn, Beethoven and Wagner had all been active at the same time, I might change my mind.  But in the end my opinion remains an opinion, and it remains unpopular - which is why it's in this thread.

Hear hear! And pre baroque music is often overlooked, especially when compared with the immensely popular composers of the 20th century