General Harpsichord and Clavichord Thread

[Mandryka]

I've been listening to Koopman's Art of Fugue and Goldbergs.

Has he ever discussed his ornamentation's in print?

[prémont]

Has he [Koopman] ever discussed his ornamentation's in print?

The only thing I have seen IIRC is a few words in the booklet to his recording of the Buxtehude harpsichord suites about adding the ornamentation, he finds natural.

[Mandryka]

The only thing I have seen IIRC is a few words in the booklet to his recording of the Buxtehude harpsichord suites about adding the ornamentation, he finds natural.

Aha. He's improvising those ornaments spontaneously maybe, and he's putting himself right in the centre of the picture.  It's what he finds natural.  I once read that in orchestral music he encourages the performers to improvise.

In his Bach the ornamentation seems to lighten the music up, make it more fun, less solemn.

In the Buxtehude suites  that may be spot on because they were just domestic pieces I think, written for friends who wanted something to play at home. In the  AoF or The Goldbergs you  lose something aesthetically -- you lose some  of the feeling, depth. But you gain  a sort of dancing nonchalance.  Anyway I suspect that where he's coming from is so far away from Leonhardt, Gilbert etc that they're incommensurable.

By the way I haven't heard his Buxtehude suites -- I've only heard Mortensen.

[prémont]

In his Bach the ornamentation seems to lighten the music up, make it more fun, less solemn.

In the Buxtehude suites  that may be spot on because they were just domestic pieces I think, written for friends who wanted something to play at home. In the  AoF or The Goldbergs you  lose something aesthetically -- you lose some  of the feeling, depth. But you gain  a sort of dancing nonchalance.  Anyway I suspect that where he's coming from is so far away from Leonhardt, Gilbert etc that they're incommensurable.

I agree very much with this. The Koopman problem is, that he even adds voluptouos ornamentation in abundance to music, which is best served without it.

[Dinkle]

Just to throw this out there:

Thank you.  I've picked up the Skip Sempe L. Couperin so far and was impressed, not that I had a point of reference for those works.

However, I then acquired Richard Egarr's Complete Harpsichord works for L. Couperin, and having read some criticisms here in advance I found myself hearing many of the same less-desirable qualities (though I tried not to do this automatically).  It feels slow and to me has an opaque quality to it, and I'm much more likely to return to the Skip Sempe in the near future.

Does anyone know how Simone Stella's Buxtehude recordings are regarded, or which are the best?  I keep coming back to a certain suite at the moment (BuxWV237) and I'm interested to hear some other recordings.

[Que]

However, I then acquired Richard Egarr's Complete Harpsichord works for L. Couperin, and having read some criticisms here in advance I found myself hearing many of the same less-desirable qualities (though I tried not to do this automatically).  It feels slow and to me has an opaque quality to it, and I'm much more likely to return to the Skip Sempe in the near future.

Didn't get Egarr, but I'm not surprised. Try Rousset's set. Most here opted for Egarr, but I am mightily impressed with Rousset's Louis Couperin. Sounds different from what you migh expect from Rousset (his style is ussually on the flashy, "brilliant" side). This set is one of his best recordings ever IMO. Quite intense and well considered.

Does anyone know how Simone Stella's Buxtehude recordings are regarded, or which are the best?  I keep coming back to a certain suite at the moment (BuxWV237) and I'm interested to hear some other recordings.

Stella is superb. Would definitely choose it over Mortensen (DaCapo/Naxos). But haven't been able to compare it to Koopman, who should have, given his background, a different approach than the Italian(ate) Stella. I would expect Stella to hold his ground in his own right - what a gifted player!

Q

[Mandryka]

Stella is superb. Would definitely choose it over Mortensen (DaCapo/Naxos).

I feel the opposite in fact: I would definitely choose Mortensen over Stella in the suites at least. Mortensen less vigorous and more introspective, which I prefer.

[Que]

[...] Mortensen less vigorous and more introspective, [...]

Absolutely, agreed. But I've become more and more aware of Buxtehude "wild" side - him being an representative of the Stylus Phanstasticus. I've grown to like a more extraverted approach.
What could be held against Stella, is that his interpretation has a slight Italianate twist. But I don't mind that at all.

Q

[Mandryka]

The hard thing about Buxtehude for me, Que, has to do with balance. Yes, I like the wild improvised feeling of the stylus phantasticus, but I really don't want that to result in muscular performances, performances which are mainly about exciting physical virtuosity. Neither would I want something that's too limp-wristed.  You've got to combine the phatasticus  with the spiritual.

Re the harpsichord suites in particular, I'm not sure that they really are examples of stylus phantasticus.

I'm not saying, by the way, that Stella is too muscular -- he's good. I'm just making a general point.

The same problems arise for Liszt, and maybe for middle period Beethoven. Scarlatti too maybe.

[prémont]

Re the harpsichord suites in particular, I'm not sure that they really are examples of stylus phantasticus.

You are right here. Allemandes, courantes, sarabandes and gigues et.c. are measured, metrical, stylized dances wthout much hint of stylus phantasticus.
A prelude to a suite might imply stylus phantasticus, but Buxtehudes suites contain no preludes. These probably had to be improvised. Unfortunately neither Mortensen nor Stella do so.
We may probably wait for Siegbert Rampe to do this, - sooner or later he is bound to record the Buxtehude suites.

[Que]

The hard thing about Buxtehude for me, Que, has to do with balance. Yes, I like the wild improvised feeling of the stylus phantasticus, but I really don't want that to result in muscular performances, performances which are mainly about exciting physical virtuosity. Neither would I want something that's too limp-wristed.  You've got to combine the phatasticus  with the spiritual.

Definitely exciting physical virtuosity with Stella, whether is is too much is up to personal taste. I certainly understand your feeling about it.

Re the harpsichord suites in particular, I'm not sure that they really are examples of stylus phantasticus.

As Premont points out as well. Quite so. It was more of a general observation about my image of Buxtehude as a composer, not implying that these pieces should be played as if particularly in that style.

Q

[Mandryka]

I saw Celine Frisch play some Bach yesterday, the second half of WTC 1 mostly. It's going to be broadcast by France musique or France culture soon I believe.  Impeccable playing which moved from bravura to contemplation as she felt the music demanded. She used a repro Silbermann which sounded nice -- resounded in fact.

I also saw Skip Sempe play on Friday -- suites of his own making composed from short pieces by various members of the Couperin family, Rameau, D'anglebert and others. I think he's one of the great musicians of our time and this concert confirmed my opinion.

Frisch played in a swish modern theatre in Montmartre. It was pretty full -- at least 350 people I would say. She's glamorous, charismatic -- she smiles, she joked with some guy who had a coughing fit, she looks great.The acoustics were great -- I was in the balcony and it was like I was right next to her instrument.

Sempe was in a beautiful  protestant church near the Chatelet. He was completely uncharismatic -- he hardly cast a glimpse at the audience as he shuffled on an off, he remained rigid as he played his  harpsichord. 50 people max came to hear him. It was freezing cold in the uncomfortable box pews  and the acoustics was lousy -- I was four rows from the front and it was like I was listening through a wall ( I exaggerate -- but only slightly) The sirens of police or ambulance vehicles could be heard frequently as they hurtled down Rue des Archives.

Sempe was more restrained than I had been expecting from his CDs of Scarlatti and Couperin and Bach; Frisch was deeper than I had expected from her records with Cafe Zimmerman and her Goldbergs. Maybe I don't do justice to either artists on record there -- during both concerts I kept thinking that I don't do either a favour because I play both too loudly at home. How to capture that sound of a harpsichord?

Sempe wrote a programme note where he talked about how for him baroque music is about juxtaposing highly energetic music with more "tasteful" must (or roughly that -- I kept the programme but it's not to hand right now.)  I kept thinking in the concert that this is what I want from Haydn performances, that the best interpreters bring out this in Haydn's music.

It really is alive in Paris for baroque!

[petrarch]

It really is alive in Paris for baroque!

That must have been awesome--two of my favorite harpsichordists!

When I listen to music I play it at concert level, judged roughly by ear. There is a sweet spot in volume level that makes the instruments "just right" in size, position on the "stage", relative position with respect to each other and venue ambience.

[snyprrr]

Nicolas Roussakis Sonata for Harpsichord (1967)

This may be the single best Modern 'Sonata' I've heard for the harpsichord. I have as yet to hear the Persichetti, but I can't imagine it being as gutsy as this one.

It's in four movements, and there's nothing special per se, but, Roussakis does appear to put great care into his piece, and for those who are in dire need of Modern Harpsichord, I can't think of a more substantial piece. Mind you, this is NOT Xenakis or Tiensuu. This is more like a perfect Serialist/Bartokian Sonata, with real meat. Each movement also has a different sound, which works to the advantage of whatever music is being presented.

I do look in vain for things beyond Barbara Harbach, but this one just can't out-of-the-blue. Take my word, here's one to stand next to Persichetti.

[Wakefield]

The only thing I have seen IIRC is a few words in the booklet to his recording of the Buxtehude harpsichord suites about adding the ornamentation, he finds natural.

Talking about ornamentation and all kind of rhetorical figures, did you listen to the Goldbergs by Blandine Rannou? 

[snyprrr]

Nicolas Roussakis Sonata for Harpsichord (1967)

This may be the single best Modern 'Sonata' I've heard for the harpsichord. I have as yet to hear the Persichetti, but I can't imagine it being as gutsy as this one.

It's in four movements, and there's nothing special per se, but, Roussakis does appear to put great care into his piece, and for those who are in dire need of Modern Harpsichord, I can't think of a more substantial piece. Mind you, this is NOT Xenakis or Tiensuu. This is more like a perfect Serialist/Bartokian Sonata, with real meat. Each movement also has a different sound, which works to the advantage of whatever music is being presented.

I do look in vain for things beyond Barbara Harbach, but this one just can't out-of-the-blue. Take my word, here's one to stand next to Persichetti.

Oy! I KNEW this wouldn't go over well on this Thread, haha!!

[Mandryka]

I'm trying to explore C P E Bach's Empfindsamkeit style music, but I'm finding it real hard to find good recordings. I have Van Asperen's CDs of Prussian and Wuttenburg sonatas, where you catch occasional glimpses of this style, in Wuttenburg 6 for example, but I think I need to go to later music to find him at his most astonishing. The sonatas with varied repeats maybe. Anyway, if you've found good performances on record , please let me know, because I like the music a lot -- also non keyboard stuff in Empfindsamkeit style.

Here's a lovely recording by Lena Jaconson -- this is the sort of thing I like.

http://www.youtube.com/v/e8odcZnXe7k&list=UUcgeR8s_FhF5kTZhca_Eq_g


Lena Jaconson has a lot of very fine stuff on youtube -- not just Buxtehude and Scarlatti but also Chopin, Brahms and Beethoven.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'm trying to explore C P E Bach's Empfindsamkeit style music, but I'm finding it real hard to find good recordings. I have Van Asperen's CDs of Prussian and Wuttenburg sonatas, where you catch occasional glimpses of this style, in Wuttenburg 6 for example, but I think I need to go to later music to find him at his most astonishing. The sonatas with varied repeats maybe. Anyway, if you've found good performances on record , please let me know, because I like the music a lot -- also non keyboard stuff in Empfindsamkeit style.

Here's a lovely recording by Lena Jaconson -- this is the sort of thing I like.

http://www.youtube.com/v/e8odcZnXe7k&list=UUcgeR8s_FhF5kTZhca_Eq_g


Lena Jaconson has a lot of very fine stuff on youtube -- not just Buxtehude and Scarlatti but also Chopin, Brahms and Beethoven.

You don't mean 'on record' literally, I take it? Just 'recorded'? 

Anyway, by far my favorite CPE Bach keyboard is Miklos Spanyi on BIS. It's on clavichord, which it should be, and he is excellent. There are ~ 20+ volumes to choose from, you might try one out.

[prémont]

Talking about ornamentation and all kind of rhetorical figures, did you listen to the Goldbergs by Blandine Rannou? 

Her (awkward?) ornamentation in the Goldberg´s recording has been discussed in this forum, and based upon this I decided to pass her Goldberg´s by.

[Mandryka]

I played this one today -- I think the music is Empfindsamkeit style, it certainly has some of the unpredictability that I like so much.

I thought the performance was a bit workmanlike -- this is great music, it's a shame that a great keyboard pianist hasn't recorded it.