Favorite Classical Nationality Poll

[marvinbrown]

  Well I voted:

  1) German/Austrian: Basically because of  Wagner/Beethoven und Bach!
  2) Italian: Because of Verdi, Puccini and Italy's invention of my favorite genre (OPERA)!
  3) Other: I love Tarab which is the Classical music hailing from the Arab world (namely Egypt. Lebanon, Syria and Iraq).  I also love Edith Piaf and that old French style singing,...........Jacques Brel (yes I know he Belgian!)

  marvin

[Opus106]

I didn't see the 'other' option the first time around. If I don't get a fourth option, I'll probably trade Russian for Indian. 0:)

[North Star]

Finland isn't a part of the Scandinavian Peninsula, and it could very well be included in this sense with the 'Russian', especially since Sibelius was 52 years old, and had composed 5 symphonies, when Finland declared independence, so, if one counts Stravinsky and Rachmaninoff Russian, one might very well count Sibelius as a Russian in this poll.
Russian favourites include Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Sibelius, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, Stravinsky, Prokofiev, and Shostakovich.
German/Austrian: Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Brahms, Mahler, Schönberg, Berg, Webern
French: Rameau, Couperin, Berlioz, Alkan, Saint-Saëns, Fauré, Franck, Bizet, Debussy, Ravel, Messiaen, Dutilleux

[The new erato]

Went with

1 German/Austriia
2 French
3. Russian

as well. If one includes Finland with Russian, all doubt on no 3 is removed!

[DavidW]

That, though not necessarily in that order. The latter two (mainly late-Romantics and early 20th C., as you may have guessed (intended?)) are 'top dogs' in orchestral colour, lovely meoldies and folk idioms. The first one includes Bach.

That is my thinking as well but German/Austrian is my default option as most of my favorite composers come from there including Bach.

[ibanezmonster]

German/Austrian
Russian
East European

[Opus106]

German/Austrian
Russian
East European

I know you chose those because the first letters almost spell Greg.

[DavidW]

I know you chose those because the first letters almost spell Greg.

His fourth option is probably Greek!

[ibanezmonster]

His fourth option is probably Greek!

You're right, because Xenakis was Greek! 

[starrynight]

I think this is more regionalism than nationalism. 

[Bulldog]

German/Austrian
Russian
British

[Lisztianwagner]

1. German/Austrian
2. Russian
3. East European; mainly because of Liszt, Chopin and Dvorak.

[marvinbrown]

  I am somewhat disturbed by the outcome of this poll. Am I to believe that Classical (art music) is specifically reserved to "Western" civilisations?

  I would argue that something fundamental is missing when cultural powerhouses rich in history and tradition such as China, India, the Islamic World etc. are excluded from a poll entitled Favorite Classical Nationality Poll- or at least relegated to category "Other"! 

  Have we Westerners become so "full of ourselves" that we identify with only our Judeo- Christian civilization? After all wasn't it Mozart who said that music is an international language? Mozart was influenced by Turkish music and paid tribute to it!

  We aspire to appreciate the highest musical art form and yet we are reluctant to look beyond our cultural boundaries, as diverse as they may seem.  I am guilty of it as well, I can not name a single Chinese "classical" music piece, my knowledge of Indian music is restricted to "Bollywood" and had it not been for an Egyptian colleague I would have never been exposed to the Classical music of the Arab world.

  Oh yes I know a lot........and yet so very little!
 

  marvin

[The Six]

  I am somewhat disturbed by the outcome of this poll. Am I to believe that Classical (art music) is specifically reserved to "Western" civilisations?

  I would argue that something fundamental is missing when cultural powerhouses rich in history and tradition such as China, India, the Islamic World etc. are excluded from a poll entitled Favorite Classical Nationality Poll- or at least relegated to category "Other"! 

  Have we Westerners become so "full of ourselves" that we identify with only our Judeo- Christian civilization? After all wasn't it Mozart who said that music is an international language? Mozart was influenced by Turkish music and paid tribute to it!

  We aspire to appreciate the highest musical art form and yet we are reluctant to look beyond our cultural boundaries, as diverse as they may seem.  I am guilty of it as well, I can not name a single Chinese "classical" music piece, my knowledge of Indian music is restricted to "Bollywood" and had it not been for an Egyptian colleague I would have never been exposed to the Classical music of the Arab world.

  Oh yes I know a lot........and yet so very little!

  marvin

Maybe it's because "classical" music is a distinctly Western thing. There's really nothing comparable to the surplus of composers writing concert music as they have in the West. It's like complaining about a poll about reggae only having Jamaican artists as a choice.

Why is the West not allowed to have its own culture? Why does everything have to be all-inclusive?

[marvinbrown]

Maybe it's because "classical" music is a distinctly Western thing. There's really nothing comparable to the surplus of composers writing concert music as they have in the West. It's like complaining about a poll about reggae only having Jamaican artists as a choice.

Why is the West not allowed to have its own culture? Why does everything have to be all-inclusive?

  The West is allowed to have it's own culture But classical music is Art Music by definition. It disturbs me that others believe the west has a monopoly on this art form.......clearly art music exists in other cultures, I have heard it the songs of Um Kalthoum for example.

  marvin

[The Six]

I'm not sure what "art music" is. Could Led Zepplin or Dave Brubeck be art music? What makes something classical any more artful than them?

The West kinda does have a monopoly on it, and for a reason. There is clearly a certain idiom associated with it. You can listen to Gagaku or Gamelan, but you won't find Western meters or instruments in it. This forum is about "art music" of the West. That's what we're here to discuss. It's not ignoring or disrespecting other cultures.

[Gurn Blanston]

  The West is allowed to have it's own culture But classical music is Art Music by definition. It disturbs me that others believe the west has a monopoly on this art form.......clearly art music exists in other cultures, I have heard it the songs of Um Kalthoum for example.

  marvin

While not denying the validity of your point; that these musics deserve attention on their own merits, I feel that you are heading down a different road than we are (and more power to you). Western art music is a diversified group of strongly interrelated music stemming from a common ancestor. This ancestor has no commonality with East Asian or African (or Mesoamerican for that matter) musics. To say that one favors the way a certain line has diversified (I like Russian Art music myself) does nothing whatsoever to invalidate Indonesian music for example. If you feel some compelling need to champion them as art forms, you should be aware that any sort of direct comparison between Chinese music and Italian Art music is not even apples v oranges; it is apples v fishes. The Six is right; Western Art music is indeed its own culture, and it deserves to be put on its own pedestal, just as all those other musics deserve their own pedestal. Mixing them together does no service to any of them.

[DavidW]

I agree with you Marvin, but looked up the formal definition of classical to see where the truth lies:

of, relating to, or being music in the educated European tradition that includes such forms as art song, chamber music, opera, and symphony as distinguished from folk or popular music or jazz

So as Gurn says it must stem from the European tradition of music that is different from folk, pop and jazz.

[Opus106]

I agree with you Marvin, but looked up the formal definition of classical to see where the truth lies:

You use M-W, I use Chambers:

"[\S]aid of music and arts related to it: having an established, traditional and somewhat formal style and form"

No mention of Europe there.

But still, I tend to side with Gurn here (more than I do with The Six); MI probably had in mind those traditions which have a distinctly European root (I could be wrong, of course).

[DavidW]

That's what the OED has too (the definition you quoted).