Recordings That You Are Considering

[marvinbrown]

 
  My fellow Sibelians.....  has anyone here invested in the Sibelius complete edition on BIS?

 

  All I am familiar with are the Symphonies (Blomstedt- San Fransisco), the tone poems (an assortment of recordings from various artists- but I believe I have heard most of the output- very impressive!) and the complete songs (Ashkenazy on Decca) beyond this I only know of the violin concerto.  The above collection has well over 50 CDs what am I missing here? I thought I try some of the boxes of the chamber music and piano works....but reviews I have read were quite discouraging claiming that there is but one worthwihile work in the chamber music, I forget which one and that the piano music falls short of the "genius" expressed in Sibelius' orchestral works.  Any truth to this? Should I look no further than what I already have?   Any feedback would be appreciated very much.

  marvin

[North Star]

 
  My fellow Sibelians.....  has anyone here invested in the Sibelius complete edition on BIS?

 

  All I am familiar with are the Symphonies (Blomstedt- San Fransisco), the tone poems (an assortment of recordings from various artists- but I believe I have heard most of the output- very impressive!) and the complete songs (Ashkenazy on Decca) beyond this I only know of the violin concerto.  The above collection has well over 50 CDs what am I missing here? I thought I try some of the boxes of the chamber music and piano works....but reviews I have read were quite discouraging claiming that there is but one worthwihile work in the chamber music, I forget which one and that the piano music falls short of the "genius" expressed in Sibelius' orchestral works.  Any truth to this? Should I look no further than what I already have?   Any feedback would be appreciated very much.

  marvin

The stage music has plenty of good things, particularly the incidental music to The Tempest (or Myrsky, as it's for a Finnish translation of the play). The Voces Intimae string quartet is clearly the most important chamber work, and Malinconia for cello & piano is another good later work - but there's definitely much to enjoy in the earlier chamber music too even if it's clearly not as important as the later orchestral works. And works with choir such as The Captive Queen (or Vapautettu Kuningatar) and The Origin of Fire (Tulen Synty - Sibelius edited the score later but I think I prefer the earlier version in this case.)

So the incidental music to The Tempest, The String Quartet Voces Intimae are what you should check next - along with double-checking that you have these tone poems: En saga, Lemminkäinen, Spring Song, Wood Nymph, Finlandia, In memoriam, Pohjola's Daughter, Night Ride and Sunrise, The Bard, Oceanides, Luonnotar, and Tapiola.

The below set seems a better choice for less rabid Sibelians - though it only has selections from the Tempest, no Nightride & Sunrise among the tone poems, the later version of The Origin of Fire (which isn't exactly bad either, to be fair), and no Captive Queen. But there's a remedy below for the choral works.. (the a cappella male choir are beautiful too).


[asin]B000KC849W[/asin]
[asin]B0017P3Q76[/asin]

[Pat B]

Despite violating the completeness criteria, I third Friedman.

[J.A.W.]

I'm considering Claudio Arrau's upcoming Complete Philips/American Decca box that's scheduled for release in Europe in March 2018.

[asin]B077ZH999P[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

 
  My fellow Sibelians.....  has anyone here invested in the Sibelius complete edition on BIS?

 

  All I am familiar with are the Symphonies (Blomstedt- San Fransisco), the tone poems (an assortment of recordings from various artists- but I believe I have heard most of the output- very impressive!) and the complete songs (Ashkenazy on Decca) beyond this I only know of the violin concerto.  The above collection has well over 50 CDs what am I missing here? I thought I try some of the boxes of the chamber music and piano works....but reviews I have read were quite discouraging claiming that there is but one worthwihile work in the chamber music, I forget which one and that the piano music falls short of the "genius" expressed in Sibelius' orchestral works.  Any truth to this? Should I look no further than what I already have?   Any feedback would be appreciated very much.

  marvin

I certainly consider myself a Sibelian. I own most of the Sibelius Edition on BIS: Complete Symphonies, Tone Poems, Voice & Orchestra, Theatre Music, Orchestral Music, Chamber Music I, Chamber Music II, and Violin & Piano. I'll go ahead and say it, all of the orchestral music sets (symphonies, tone poems, voice & orchestra, theatre music, and orchestral music) are an essential acquisition for the Sibelian. One of the gems of Sibelius' oeuvre that doesn't get discussed that much is the complete work of The Tempest, which North Star (Karlo) mentioned. This is one of Sibelius' late masterpieces and is absolutely a must-hear. You're right about what you read about the chamber music, it's not up to par with his orchestral music IMHO. I will say that I would call many of these performances in these BIS sets definitive, especially the Osmo Vänskä recordings, which, to this day, are still my favorite Sibelius performances (sorry Segerstam and Berglund ). So his performances alone are most definitely worth looking into. That Blomstedt set you own is 'okay' but doesn't quite have the elemental power as the Vänskä cycle.

I hope this helps you in some way, Marvin. Happy exploring!

[Madiel]

 
  My fellow Sibelians.....  has anyone here invested in the Sibelius complete edition on BIS?

 

  All I am familiar with are the Symphonies (Blomstedt- San Fransisco), the tone poems (an assortment of recordings from various artists- but I believe I have heard most of the output- very impressive!) and the complete songs (Ashkenazy on Decca) beyond this I only know of the violin concerto.  The above collection has well over 50 CDs what am I missing here? I thought I try some of the boxes of the chamber music and piano works....but reviews I have read were quite discouraging claiming that there is but one worthwihile work in the chamber music, I forget which one and that the piano music falls short of the "genius" expressed in Sibelius' orchestral works.  Any truth to this? Should I look no further than what I already have?   Any feedback would be appreciated very much.

  marvin

Many of the boxes are full of scraps and fragments and performances of the same work in different arrangements.

It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing to, for example, explore the piano works (I've listened online and I think a lot of the mature ones are worthwhile), but my own view has been that the BIS edition is not necessarily the best way to do it.

Personally I am looking seriously at the works for voice and orchestra (many of them choral), but even then I might buy separate discs rather than the box. The theatre music box is another one that seems relatively worthwhile, though you get both the complete versions and the suites meant for concert performance.

[marvinbrown]

The stage music has plenty of good things, particularly the incidental music to The Tempest (or Myrsky, as it's for a Finnish translation of the play). The Voces Intimae string quartet is clearly the most important chamber work, and Malinconia for cello & piano is another good later work - but there's definitely much to enjoy in the earlier chamber music too even if it's clearly not as important as the later orchestral works. And works with choir such as The Captive Queen (or Vapautettu Kuningatar) and The Origin of Fire (Tulen Synty - Sibelius edited the score later but I think I prefer the earlier version in this case.)

So the incidental music to The Tempest, The String Quartet Voces Intimae are what you should check next - along with double-checking that you have these tone poems: En saga, Lemminkäinen, Spring Song, Wood Nymph, Finlandia, In memoriam, Pohjola's Daughter, Night Ride and Sunrise, The Bard, Oceanides, Luonnotar, and Tapiola.

The below set seems a better choice for less rabid Sibelians - though it only has selections from the Tempest, no Nightride & Sunrise among the tone poems, the later version of The Origin of Fire (which isn't exactly bad either, to be fair), and no Captive Queen. But there's a remedy below for the choral works.. (the a cappella male choir are beautiful too).


[asin]B000KC849W[/asin]
[asin]B0017P3Q76[/asin]

I certainly consider myself a Sibelian. I own most of the Sibelius Edition on BIS: Complete Symphonies, Tone Poems, Voice & Orchestra, Theatre Music, Orchestral Music, Chamber Music I, Chamber Music II, and Violin & Piano. I'll go ahead and say it, all of the orchestral music sets (symphonies, tone poems, voice & orchestra, theatre music, and orchestral music) are an essential acquisition for the Sibelian. One of the gems of Sibelius' oeuvre that doesn't get discussed that much is the complete work of The Tempest, which North Star (Karlo) mentioned. This is one of Sibelius' late masterpieces and is absolutely a must-hear. You're right about what you read about the chamber music, it's not up to par with his orchestral music IMHO. I will say that I would call many of these performances in these BIS sets definitive, especially the Osmo Vänskä recordings, which, to this day, are still my favorite Sibelius performances (sorry Segerstam and Berglund ). So his performances alone are most definitely worth looking into. That Blomstedt set you own is 'okay' but doesn't quite have the elemental power as the Vänskä cycle.

I hope this helps you in some way, Marvin. Happy exploring!

 

Many of the boxes are full of scraps and fragments and performances of the same work in different arrangements.

It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing to, for example, explore the piano works (I've listened online and I think a lot of the mature ones are worthwhile), but my own view has been that the BIS edition is not necessarily the best way to do it.

Personally I am looking seriously at the works for voice and orchestra (many of them choral), but even then I might buy separate discs rather than the box. The theatre music box is another one that seems relatively worthwhile, though you get both the complete versions and the suites meant for concert performance.

  Gentelmen, thank you very much for your feedback.  I really appreciate it.  The BIS Essential Sibelius set looks very tempting.  Thanks for posting.

  marvin

[The new erato]

Nobody loving Sibelius' songs with piano? There are a couple of strong discs in the BIS series, though few can touch Kim Borg in the male songs in this repertoire.

[North Star]

Nobody loving Sibelius' songs with piano? There are a couple of strong discs in the BIS series, though few can touch Kim Borg in the male songs in this repertoire.

Marvin already has the Decca box (with Krause, Söderström, Ashkenazy, Gage & Bonell), it seems. I admittedly don't know these songs as well as I should.

[marvinbrown]

Marvin already has the Decca box (with Krause, Söderström, Ashkenazy, Gage & Bonell), it seems. I admittedly don't know these songs as well as I should.

  That complete songs recordings is incredible - also won the Gramophone award.

  marvin

[Madiel]

Nobody loving Sibelius' songs with piano? There are a couple of strong discs in the BIS series, though few can touch Kim Borg in the male songs in this repertoire.

They are fabulous. I bought the same set that marvinbrown has earlier this year. But, as stated, there was no point in then recommending the songs to him.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Didn't know she recorded enough to fill up 10 CDs. I have some of her Schubert and Bach sonatas and partitas on LP, but will likely get this (cheap!). Does anyone own it or know what's on it?

[amw]

A lot of the recommendations don't seem to be available for streaming and I have exactly $25 in my bank account to last me through the new year >.> but I did find a pirate copy of the Harasiewicz set which is..... odd..... I'm not used to hearing mazurkas that are so..... optimistic? It reminds me a lil of Hamelin's Szymanowski which similarly feels like it skims the darker elements but is still very enjoyable on its own terms. Don't know exactly what to think there.

Fialkowska is probably front-runner for complete sets at the moment (though also curious about the Olejniczak, which I will try to get hold of via library). And Czerny-Stefańska is intriguing and will come back to her.

[king ubu]

Didn't know she recorded enough to fill up 10 CDs. I have some of her Schubert and Bach sonatas and partitas on LP, but will likely get this (cheap!). Does anyone own it or know what's on it?

I've shelved out big money for some of those Korean violin sets a few years ago ... and the Martzy may be the finest (the others I bought are the ones by Christian Ferras - now available with a few bonus cuts as an Icon, but I think his DG box is superior -, Gioconda de Vito, and Erica Morini - both also have their entry in the "Milestones of a Legend" series). Great music, but in case you're not aware: presentation of these Membran/Documents boxes is minimal, may even lack recording dates and such (you will get some year, release year of album or something like that). I bought a few of them, too, just for lack of alternatives (Kogan and Auclair for violinists, Haas and Lympany for pianists) but would immediately replace them if other options arose.

You can get a good idea - I assume, don't really know! - about the Martzy's box contents here:
http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Classical-Collection-Violin_000000000034634/item_Johanna-Martzy-Complete-Recordings-on-EMI-Deutsche-Grammophon-13CD_4981179

[Mandryka]

A lot of the recommendations don't seem to be available for streaming and I have exactly $25 in my bank account to last me through the new year >.> but I did find a pirate copy of the Harasiewicz set which is..... odd..... I'm not used to hearing mazurkas that are so..... optimistic? It reminds me a lil of Hamelin's Szymanowski which similarly feels like it skims the darker elements but is still very enjoyable on its own terms. Don't know exactly what to think there.

Fialkowska is probably front-runner for complete sets at the moment (though also curious about the Olejniczak, which I will try to get hold of via library). And Czerny-Stefańska is intriguing and will come back to her.

Years ago Herman recommended the Harasiewicz to me (do you know him, he used to post here?) and I said that they were " fresh and lively, dancing and playful. My only reservation is to do with the emotional side. Not that there aren't some bittersweet moments of course, despite the energy of it. " To which he laconically responded "he does indeed not sentimentalize 'em."

PM me if you want a download of Olejniczak or indeed Wasowski and Milkina.

[The One]

Chiu (Frederic)

Who he?

This response might weaken your position in Mazurka interactions by a long margin in some circles . I recommend you to witness the subtlety of his version soon. 

[Josquin13]

I would consider myself a passionately devoted Sibelian!!!, yet I differ from others on their high opinion of Osma Vanska's 1st symphony set.  While it's certainly very good, I think there are better recordings elsewhere.  Granted, the BIS complete or "essential" box sets are definitely useful for "completists", and Sibelius lovers, of course, yet many of my most treasured Sibelius recordings aren't in them.  And, I'd be remiss not to mention that over the years I've heard complaints about the wide dynamic range of Vanska's BIS symphony recordings, which some have found too extreme (it may depend on your stereo system).

I've personally found Vanska to be most worthwhile in his world premiere Sibelius recordings (along with other rarities): such as the alternative versions of the Violin Concerto (with Leonidas Kavakos) and the 5th Symphony, his world premiere 1st recording of "The Wood Nymph", and his superb recording of the complete incidental music to The Tempest (which I may even slightly prefer to Jukka-Pekka Saraste's fantastic recording on Ondine, though Saraste has perhaps a little better sound), etc. etc..  For these fine recordings I am eternally grateful!

As for the Symphonies 1-7, and the Lemminkainen Suite, I've heard better.  IMO, Vanska isn't quite in the same class as Paavo Berglund--at least, not when Berglund was at his best.  Berglund, it should be pointed out, was the driving force behind the newly revised and corrected Hansen editions of the 5th, 6th, & 7th Symphonies in the 1980s (as it turned out he'd been using the composer's hand corrected conducting scores for many years, while everyone else had been conducting from the error ridden original Hansen scores), and no modern conductor knew these scores more intimately than Berglund, or conducted them as often over the course of a long lifetime.  And, it really shows on his recordings of the 5th, 6th, & 7th. 

It should also be pointed out that Berglund was known to be at his best live in concert, as opposed to the studio.  Which is not to say that he didn't make some great Sibelius recordings in the studio, as he did--such as his Bournemouth recording of the 2nd Symphony (which has been recently superbly remastered on hybrid SACD, or in a bargain discount EMI box set).  But what isn't perhaps as widely known is that at that end of his life, after having recorded three remarkable Sibelius cycles, Berglund set down his final thoughts on the 2nd, 5th, 6th, & 7th symphonies, in a series of live concerts made in London in the 2000s (no 1 & 4 yet, unfortunately ... ).  Here, Berglund's 5th rivals that of Kajanus, yet has much better sound, while his 7th stands in a class of its own, not even Beecham's 7th is as good, IMO:

[asin] B000B865B4[/asin]
[asin]B008P76VTE[/asin]

I also wouldn't want to be without Berglund's tone poems that he recorded in the early digital era with the Philharmonia on EMI. His Philharmonia Swan of Tuonela is more mysterious, & poignant than any other version I've ever heard--with its uniquely vibrato less strings & soft, translucent horns, including Berglund's own later live version in London:
 
[asin]B00004TV9I[/asin]

So, would I take the BIS "Essentials" box set with me to my desert island in preference to Berglund's late live recordings in London, and Philharmonia tone poems.  Absolutely not.  No way!

In addition, here's an interesting 1999 article article from the Finnish Quarterly that is essential reading for Sibelius lovers, and may be especially helpful for any newbies (in clarifying the difference between the Finnish conductors & the likes of Davis, Rattle, etc.--the antithesis of the Finns!!):

https://fmq.fi/articles/sibelius-the-view-from-the-podium

By the way, I would also strongly recommend Christopher Nupen's two documentary films on Sibelius, and the HD documentary of Vladimir Ashkenazy's trip to Finland and Ainola several years ago--both available to watch for free on You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3bDgJJhnes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agkg89pqA8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPFI3Yf5dY

As for the reissue of the "complete" Philips recordings of pianist Claudio Arrau (another favorite of mine)--the primary question is: Are these the old Philips remasters?, which have been reissued by Decca in certain cases (his Beethoven Piano Sonatas), or are they the Heritage box set remasters of Arrau's Philips recordings, which came out in individual boxes per composer--the ones that are now OOP and extremely pricey?  If they are the old Philips remasters, reissued, then I'll pass, as those remasters, while good enough, are significantly inferior to the Heritage set remasters, which catch Arrau's special piano timbre and tone as well as I've ever heard on CD.  Does anyone know?

[North Star]

I would consider myself a passionately devoted Sibelian!!!, yet I differ from others on their high opinion of Osma Vanska's 1st symphony set.  While it's certainly very good, I think there are better recordings elsewhere.  Granted, the BIS complete or "essential" box sets are definitely useful for "completists", and Sibelius lovers, of course, yet many of my most treasured Sibelius recordings aren't in them.  And, I'd be remiss not to mention that over the years I've heard complaints about the wide dynamic range of Vanska's BIS symphony recordings, which some have found too extreme (it may depend on your stereo system).

I've personally found Vanska to be most worthwhile in his world premiere Sibelius recordings (along with other rarities): such as the alternative versions of the Violin Concerto (with Leonidas Kavakos) and the 5th Symphony, his world premiere 1st recording of "The Wood Nymph", and his superb recording of the complete incidental music to The Tempest (which I may even slightly prefer to Jukka-Pekka Saraste's fantastic recording on Ondine, though Saraste has perhaps a little better sound), etc. etc..  For these fine recordings I am eternally grateful!

As for the Symphonies 1-7, and the Lemminkainen Suite, I've heard better.  IMO, Vanska isn't quite in the same class as Paavo Berglund--at least, not when Berglund was at his best.  Berglund, it should be pointed out, was the driving force behind the newly revised and corrected Hansen editions of the 5th, 6th, & 7th Symphonies in the 1980s (as it turned out he'd been using the composer's hand corrected conducting scores for many years, while everyone else had been conducting from the error ridden original Hansen scores), and no modern conductor knew these scores more intimately than Berglund, or conducted them as often over the course of a long lifetime.  And, it really shows on his recordings of the 5th, 6th, & 7th. 

It should also be pointed out that Berglund was known to be at his best live in concert, as opposed to the studio.  Which is not to say that he didn't make some great Sibelius recordings in the studio, as he did--such as his Bournemouth recording of the 2nd Symphony (which has been recently superbly remastered on hybrid SACD, or in a bargain discount EMI box set).  But what isn't perhaps as widely known is that at that end of his life, after having recorded three remarkable Sibelius cycles, Berglund set down his final thoughts on the 2nd, 5th, 6th, & 7th symphonies, in a series of live concerts made in London in the 2000s (no 1 & 4 yet, unfortunately ... ).  Here, Berglund's 5th rivals that of Kajanus, yet has much better sound, while his 7th stands in a class of its own, not even Beecham's 7th is as good, IMO:


I also wouldn't want to be without Berglund's tone poems that he recorded in the early digital era with the Philharmonia on EMI. His Philharmonia Swan of Tuonela is more mysterious, & poignant than any other version I've ever heard--with its uniquely vibrato less strings & soft, translucent horns, including Berglund's own later live version in London:
 
So, would I take the BIS "Essentials" box set with me to my desert island in preference to Berglund's late live recordings in London, and Philharmonia tone poems.  Absolutely not.  No way!

In addition, here's an interesting 1999 article article from the Finnish Quarterly that is essential reading for Sibelius lovers, and may be especially helpful for any newbies (in clarifying the difference between the Finnish conductors & the likes of Davis, Rattle, etc.--the antithesis of the Finns!!):

https://fmq.fi/articles/sibelius-the-view-from-the-podium

By the way, I would also strongly recommend Christopher Nupen's two documentary films on Sibelius, and the HD documentary of Vladimir Ashkenazy's trip to Finland and Ainola several years ago--both available to watch for free on You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3bDgJJhnes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agkg89pqA8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPFI3Yf5dY

The symphony & tone poem recordings weren't really why I mentioned the BIS box, as much as I do love Vänskä's recordings there. But I agree that Berglund's recordings, with the Helsinki Philharmonic and others, are absolutely first-rate as well.

[Josquin13]

North Star writes, "The symphony & tone poem recordings weren't really why I mentioned the BIS box..."

I understand, it's the other works that make it a valuable set.  But others have mentioned Vanska, and I often hear his name in relation to Sibelius, I just don't entirely agree regarding his 1st Symphony cycle.

In addition, there are many other individual recordings that I would seek out first (or recommend) among the various genres, as well--that is, outside the BIS "essentials" set.  For example, in the songs, historically, Kirsten Flagstad is excellent, as are both Tom Krause and Elisabeth Söderström in their Decca set (which I think tends to get underrated, especially Krause).  I've also liked the Ondine Sibelius recordings from soprano Karita Mattila.

Though the songs from von Otter and Groop in the BIS set are certainly very good too. And, Jorma Hynninen is one of the finest male singers in this repertory.

But, my basic point is, I'd much rather collect selected Sibelius recordings over a longer period of time, gradually, than only own the BIS "Essentials" set.

[North Star]

North Star writes, "The symphony & tone poem recordings weren't really why I mentioned the BIS box..."

I understand, it's the other works that make it a valuable set.  But others have mentioned Vanska, and I often hear his name in relation to Sibelius, I just don't entirely agree regarding his 1st Symphony cycle.

In addition, there are many other individual recordings that I would seek out first (or recommend) among the various genres, as well--that is, outside the BIS "essentials" set.  For example, in the songs, historically, Kirsten Flagstad is excellent, as are both Tom Krause and Elisabeth Söderström in their Decca set (which I think tends to get underrated, especially Krause).  I've also liked the Ondine Sibelius recordings from soprano Karita Mattila.

Though the songs from von Otter and Groop in the BIS set are certainly very good too. And, Jorma Hynninen is one of the finest male singers in this repertory.

But, my basic point is, I'd much rather collect selected Sibelius recordings over a longer period of time, gradually, than only own the BIS "Essentials" set.

And again, Marvin already owns the Krause/Söderström song set.
Agreed on all the singers you list. I'd also point out that I brought up the BIS Essentials box as an alternative to collecting the BIS Complete Edition.