Recordings That You Are Considering

[jlaurson]

Some nice formatting there, jl.  I'd add the Rozhdestvensky cycle.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1424517

Thanks for the link, info, and the comment. [Man, I thought no one was going to mention it. It took like... ah, forever. :-) ]
Should I perhaps post it in a Sibelius thread, if there is one?

Now I need two more complete cycles (or one that is two-partite) to fill the next row.

[karlhenning]

Robert von Bahr says that this is the CD he'd want played on his deathbed.  Considering the man just had the Whipple procedure done, I don't think this is empty boasting.

Fröst would make a strong case (I am guessing there is included a clarinet concerto);  I'd certainly give that a listen!

I only have one Rouse CD, which I'll have to dig out of the garage.

That's one of the discs I used to have.

[Dundonnell]

Fröst would make a strong case (I am guessing there is included a clarinet concerto);  I'd certainly give that a listen!

That's one of the discs I used to have.

Warning! The Clarinet Concerto is Rouse in his rebarbative mood It is totally unlike the Flute Concerto

[Dundonnell]

Thanks for the link, info, and the comment. [Man, I thought no one was going to mention it. It took like... ah, forever. :-) ]
Should I perhaps post it in a Sibelius thread, if there is one?

Now I need two more complete cycles (or one that is two-partite) to fill the next row.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,341.0.html

[karlhenning]

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,378.0.html

Thanks for the reminder, Colin!

[Drasko]

Well, I already have sets by Neumann and Thomson, and individual recordings by Ancerl (5,6), Turnovsky (4), and Munch (6).  But this new set looks interesting and got a very good review in ARG.

I have that set for some months now and though I was somewhat lukewarm initially it has considerably grown on me (about his 4th I'm not so sure yet). I definitely come to prefer it to Thomson, it's been too long since I heard Neumann's analog cycle (Neumann's digital 3 & 6 are absolute must). Valek is consistently and noticeably more deliberate than Thomson, but his sense of rhythm is very strong and brings out the angular, syncopated pulse more to the front than more agitated (exciting?) but comparatively streamlined Thomson. I also feel Valek gets more detail out of Martinu's constantly busy textures, some of it is probably due to slower tempi and some to Supraphon sound which is on dry and analytical side (Czech radio studios, not Rudolfinum), in my opinion far preferable for Martinu than trademark mushiness of Chandos.
So albeit not being particularly revelatory Valek's set is very good and more than justifies its modest asking price. Doubt it'll replace your preferences for Turnovsky or Ancerl but it won't hurt.     

[Sergeant Rock]

What could I possibly have written to turn you off my Bruckner-judgment, then? Just the Barenboim disagreement?

Gee, I can't even recall now. I think it was back in the day when I only responded to really slow Bruckner. My credo was: it's impossible to play Bruckner too slowly--and I disliked the speed demons. Perhaps we disagreed about Herreweghe? Or Jochum? Or Harnoncourt? Or Böhm? The irony is: Barenboim is generally pretty fast and yet I still like him. Ditto Dohnányi. Jochum has grown on me.

Here are my top choices (I have to write it REALLY quick before I start doubting myself, otherwise such a list becomes impossible):

1 Barenboim
2 Skrowac.
3 Celi
4 Boehm
5 Celi
6 Celi
7 Karajan
8 Wand Berlin
9 Wand Berlin

I can't believe we are that far apart. (Of course I have many more top choices, but that's not the point of this post, is it? Ahhh... so tempting to pontificate!  )

Well, that is your profession. Any critic worth his salt pontificates 

I could live with that selection...although I don't know Wand's Berlin performances. I didn't care much for his Köln cycle and haven't explored many of his later recordings. One exception is that double package with the NDR Fourth and the Schubert 5th which I picked up after reading your review at IONARTS. Love both performances.


My list (today) would be:

0 Chailly/RSO Berlin
1 Barenboim/Berlin
2 Barenboim/Berlin (love his slower than normal Finale)
3 Celi/Munich
4 Karajan/Berlin (EMI)
5 Dohnänyi/Cleveland (for fast and dramatic) or Celi/Munich (for slow and majestic)
6 Klemperer/Philharmonia (or Celi or Sawallisch)
7 Chailly/RSO Berlin
8 Maazel/Berlin (he took me by surprise when I did a comparison of all my Eighths. Szell/Cleveland is near the top too but I don't have a CD of that performance; making do with my 40-year-old LPs)
9 Guilini/Vienna

My collection isn't as vast as some Brucknerites here but I've between 12 to 20 versions of each symphony (except 0, 1 and 2)

Sarge

[Haffner]

8 Maazel/Berlin (he took me by surprise when I did a comparison of all my Eighths. Szell/Cleveland is near the top too but I don't have a CD of that performance; making do with my 40-year-old LPs)
9 Guilini/Vienna

My collection isn't as vast as some Brucknerites here but I've between 12 to 20 versions of each symphony (except 0, 1 and 2)

Sarge

I'm still chomping ar the bit for the Giulini...this is the first time I even heard of a Maazel 8th.

[Sergeant Rock]

...this is the first time I even heard of a Maazel 8th.

Its a well-kept secret, Andy. I only picked it up because it was dirt cheap. As I stood there in the store, gazing at the cover, I couldn't recall reading any reviews or seeing it discussed in forums. But the price was right for a blind purchase even though I had no positive expectations...quite the opposite, in fact, because I'd heard a Maazel conducted Eighth in Cleveland in the 70s and had been thoroughly underwhelmed. The Berlin performance was a pleasant surprise. I'll even risk bringing down the wrath of the GMG forum on my head by admitting it's more to my taste than the sainted Giulini Eighth (I prefer Boulez in Vienna).

But I'm talking small margins here. I don't own a really bad Eighth...although Jochum comes really close 

Sarge

[Haffner]

Its a well-kept secret, Andy. I only picked it up because it was dirt cheap. As I stood there in the store, gazing at the cover, I couldn't recall reading any reviews or seeing it discussed in forums. But the price was right for a blind purchase even though I had no positive expectations...quite the opposite, in fact, because I'd heard a Maazel conducted Eighth in Cleveland in the 70s and had been thoroughly underwhelmed. The Berlin performance was a pleasant surprise. I'll even risk bringing down the wrath of the GMG forum on my head by admitting it's more to my taste than the sainted Giulini Eighth (I prefer Boulez in Vienna).

But I'm talking small margins here. I don't own a really bad Eighth...although Jochum comes really close 

Sarge

Nooo! I really like the Jochum!

I'm checking the Maazel on Amazon, Vielen Dank'!

[Daverz]

I have that set for some months now and though I was somewhat lukewarm initially it has considerably grown on me (about his 4th I'm not so sure yet). I definitely come to prefer it to Thomson, it's been too long since I heard Neumann's analog cycle (Neumann's digital 3 & 6 are absolute must). Valek is consistently and noticeably more deliberate than Thomson, but his sense of rhythm is very strong and brings out the angular, syncopated pulse more to the front than more agitated (exciting?) but comparatively streamlined Thomson. I also feel Valek gets more detail out of Martinu's constantly busy textures, some of it is probably due to slower tempi and some to Supraphon sound which is on dry and analytical side (Czech radio studios, not Rudolfinum), in my opinion far preferable for Martinu than trademark mushiness of Chandos.
So albeit not being particularly revelatory Valek's set is very good and more than justifies its modest asking price. Doubt it'll replace your preferences for Turnovsky or Ancerl but it won't hurt.     

Thanks for the detailed comments.

Dry sounds good.

Oh, I didn't say I preferred Turnovsky.  It was recommended, I listened a couple times and put it away.  I don't really have any memory of the performance.  I also have forgot I have an older Behlolavek recording of the 4th coupled with a 5th by Trhlik on Panton.  Same story.   

Ancerl is great of course in 5 & 6, but I think this music needs the best sound. 

The Munch 6 is a great recording (Japanese RCA issue).  The work was written for him and the BSO.

I do like the Neumann set very much, but the recording is too resonant.  His two later digital recordings are better recorded. 

I very much like the recordings Chandos gave Thomson and the lush sound he gets from the Scots, a pleasant surprise after so many thin sounding Järvi recordings with that group (though not their Rimsky set!)  Perhaps not idomatic, but a nice wallow.

[jlaurson]

Gee, I can't even recall now. I think it was back in the day when I only responded to really slow Bruckner. My credo was: it's impossible to play Bruckner too slowly--and I disliked the speed demons. Perhaps we disagreed about Herreweghe? Or Jochum? Or Harnoncourt? Or Böhm? The irony is: Barenboim is generally pretty fast and yet I still like him. Ditto Dohnányi. Jochum has grown on me.

I'm pretty sure it was my Herreweghe praise.

But seeing how I had hedged in the opening paragraph, I thought it might have been clear that I didn't consider this the Bruckner-standard, either.

Oh, boy! "Historically Informed Bruckner"—just what we needed, right? Seriously: after Roger Norrington suggesting to play Mahler without vibrato (historically correct as that may be), this seemed to be just about the next dumbest idea. But unlike the recent and highly unnecessary Bruckner recordings of Messrs. Eschenbach and Nagano, this is actually rather a delight.

As "slow" concerned: In all honesty... I think Norrington (or Herreweghe) are right. The performances would never have been played that slow originally. Romantic music has been slowed down consistently over the last 120 years (so far as we can tell from accounts and recordings) and only a few conductors have never/rarely participated in that (e.g. Sawallisch, Kraus) - and some have made a business out of ostentatiously "reverting" to faster speeds. (Boulez, Norrington of course, Haenchen...)

That said: Even if Norrington is right, I still don't want to listen to his Bruckner. If slow is done well, it can achieve devastating effects. I hear from friends who have been to most Celi Bruckner performances in concert, that they were all great. On record, I find that some don't translate very well. Just like the recordings of Thielemann don't seem to translate well at all, either.

...although I don't know Wand's Berlin performances. I didn't care much for his Köln cycle and haven't explored many of his later recordings. One exception is that double package with the NDR Fourth and the Schubert 5th which I picked up after reading your review at IONARTS. Love both performances.

If you trust me only once this year, trust me that you have to have Wand's 8th. (I will get Maazel's 8th, btw.. It's already in the cart.)
There are points made for preferring the Luebeck 8th over the Berlin 8th, and I could subscribe to that... but I find the Berlin just that little bit more immediately arresting. Ultimately, both are probably mandatory in anyone's bulging collection.

I don't have the Chailly 7th you list -- perhaps I should explore that direction, too. (Most of it seems oop, though the complete set is inexpensive in Europe.) I have his 0th and 8th -- and it's telling that I almost always forget I even have his 8th.

My list (today) would be:

0 Chailly/RSO Berlin - 1 Barenboim/Berlin - 2 Barenboim/Berlin - 3 Celi/Munich - 4 Karajan/Berlin (EMI) - 5 Dohnänyi/Cleveland or Celi/Munich
6 Klemperer/Philharmonia (or Celi or Sawallisch) - 7 Chailly/RSO Berlin - 8 Maazel/Berlin - 9 Guilini/Vienna

Maybe I'll listen to the Guilini 9th now, when I get downstairs. Just coffee... & Bruckner.

I'll even risk bringing down the wrath of the GMG forum on my head by admitting it's more to my taste than the sainted Giulini Eighth (I prefer Boulez in Vienna).

But I'm talking small margins here. I don't own a really bad Eighth...although Jochum comes really close 

My alternative favorites: Sinopoli in the 5th, for example. And definitely Boulez in the 8th! It's with Vienna but in Linz, I believe. Karajan ain't half bad, either.

I own a few 'bad' 8th, though. The much vaunted Kna' on Westminster. Schalk, sloppy, boring. Chailly/RCO: grandeur bordering insignificance.

[Drasko]

Ancerl is great of course in 5 & 6, but I think this music needs the best sound. 

Agreed on both counts, question of sound is keeping me from some potentially quite interesting Martinu recordings - Ancerl's live 1st, 3rd and 5th on Multisonic and Sejna's 3rd and Double Concerto (well, the question of price on that one as well)

I do like the Neumann set very much, but the recording is too resonant.  His two later digital recordings are better recorded.

But still quite resonant.

[Brian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancreaticoduodenectomy

Just added Mr von Bahr's name to that page.

[Bu]

I want another version of Boris. Is this worth getting?

[jwinter]

Sorry I missed this.  I have the Solomon box on order -- I don't have any previous issues to compare, but I'll give them a spin when they arrive and let you know my impressions...

FYI, the Icon Solomon box just arrived last night.  From the notes, it looks like about 1/2 of the tracks were remastered for this release, including most of the Beethoven.  Listened to the Moonlight last night, sound was a tad murky but quite acceptable; still some substantial tape hiss, so it's definitely not overfiltered, though I'm not sure if they might have boosted the bass a little bit (or the original recording may just be bass-heavy -- again, I never got these on Testament etc so I don't have anything to compare).   Performance-wise I quite enjoyed it, his take on the opening movement is very slow but effective; looking forward to hearing the rest of the set.

[George]

Yes, J, my experience is that EMI is getting better when is comes to transfers.

BTW, the Testament that I have heard was anything but bass-heavy. I would suspect that in the efforts to remedy this, they went overboard.

[Que]

FYI, the Icon Solomon box just arrived last night.  From the notes, it looks like about 1/2 of the tracks were remastered for this release, including most of the Beethoven.  Llistened to the Moonlight last night, sound was a tad murky but quite acceptable; still some substantial tape hiss, so it's definitely not overfiltered, though I'm not sure if they might have boosted the bass a little bit (or the original recording may just be bass-heavy -- again, I never got these on Testament etc so I don't have anything to compare).   Performance-wise I quite enjoyed it, his take on the opening movement is very slow but effective; looking forward to hearing the rest of the set.

Yes, J, my experience is that EMI is getting better when is comes to transfers.

BTW, the Testament that I have heard was anything but bass-heavy. I would suspect that in the efforts to remedy this, they went overboard.

Second George's remark. Seems that EMI still has some lessons to be learned..

When do the big companies stop tinkering and fiddling with old recordings? 
They look like little children who can't keep their hands out of the cookie jar...

Q

[Keemun]

Any thoughts or recommendations on these?


Beethoven: Late String Quartets, Vol. 1 & 2 (Quartetto Italiano)

   


Beethoven: Late String Quartets (Emerson String Quartet)




Beethoven: Complete String Quartets (Alban Berg Quartet)




Beethoven: Late String Quartets (Budapest String Quartet - In Concert At The Library of Congress)




Mozart: Mass in C minor (Bernstein/Bavarian Radio Choir and Orchestra)



Thanks! 

[Renfield]

They look like little children who can't keep their hands out of the cookie jar...

Thank you for that mental picture.