Recordings That You Are Considering

[Brian]

Whew! This has been a fun read.

I am, to clear up what seems to have become a salient issue, a fan of HIP recordings, as well as HIP hybrids. But I do not play the HIP/anti-HIP game: the luscious "super-vibrato" and portamenti are the reasons why I added the Kreisler box in the first place. My fortepiano tastes vary wildly depending on the fortepiano at hand, however, and after hopping onto Naxos Music Library, I discovered that, to my ears, Brautigam's instrument got really old really fast, and that 15 CDs is a lot of Haydn sonatas that may take me years to really start to love. So it was voted off the island. And it does seem to me that the Mozart concertos are a lot more interesting starter to 1700s keyboard music, after a good bit of sampling. Immerseel or Anda or somebody else ... that is a question. I think with Immerseel's I am much more attracted to the orchestral sound than the piano sound, which does bode well for his Beethoven cycle.

By the way, I agree with David W. Saying that all HIP cycles sound the same is tantamount to absurdity. [EDIT: It occurs to me that nobody may have actually said this during the ongoing debate, but just in case...] "You already have a HIP cycle, you don't need 4 of them" is like saying, "You read Sartre, you don't need to read any other French philosophers," or, "You already have one cycle with an American orchestra..." HIPsters and even semi-HIPsters like me recognize that there is just as much room for creative difference on period instruments as there is on modern instruments. If the period performance crowd isn't as widely differentiated or diverse as everyone else yet, it's because they're only about 30 years old. From the samples I've heard on ZigZag's website, Immerseel's set is a real illustration of what HIPsters can do to make something completely new.

I'm hesitant about the Dvorak because it's not on sale (everything else is). Knowing MDT, a month from now they'll probably knock $20 off the combined list price, so it might be worth holding out. I am pretty seriously thinking about the Grumiaux/Haskil. Dropped the Shosty; I don't need a second set until I know Barshai inside and out.

And Franco, if you want to hear what a fortepiano can do, try Brautigam's or Komen's Beethoven sonatas (especially Komen's late sonatas and Brautigam's Op. 79).

Wanderer, thanks for the comments on Gilels and others. And yes, you all have been very helpful and indeed very interesting. Way more interesting than I could have hoped for!  

P.S. I have Harnoncourt's Beethoven cycle. I have, in no particular order, Karajan '63, Abbado/Rome, Mackerras II, Hogwood, Gardiner, Harnoncourt, Barenboim, Vanska, and somebody I'm forgetting. In light of this another Beethoven cycle is by no means the most important thing to buy   , except that the Immerseel is priced at $60-100 in the USA and only $33 on MDT, and my trigger finger is itchy at the thought of saving $73 off Amazon's list price.

[DavidW]

You already said that. Should I repeat that I disagree, will you quote me again and repeat the above? 

Yes!!  Let's do it!

Nice job keeping your calm, by the way.

Okay you have me there, I could have kept my calm and not been quite such an ass, I apologize.

[PerfectWagnerite]

except that the Immerseel is priced at $60-100 in the USA and only $33 on MDT, and my trigger finger is itchy at the thought of saving $73 off Amazon's list price.

Don't know where you do your cd shopping but in this link from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0014WSWTY/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&qid=1255719219&sr=8-2&condition=new

there are clearly sellers selling new copies in the $40 range. I personally like IMPORTCD, a fantastic seller from whom I have purchase numerous items.

[Wanderer]

I have Harnoncourt's Beethoven cycle.

Then, you certainly don't need to buy it again!
The Immerseel set has been on sale on and off for a long time in various online stores; I bought my copy for less than 20 euros some months ago. So, I don't think you need particularly hurry just because of the present mdt offer.

Okay you have me there, I could have kept my calm and not been quite such an ass, I apologize.

Apology accepted.

[Coopmv]

Having 3 HIP Beethoven cycles already, I don't think purchasing the Immerseel set is essential (however better than Gardiner or Norrington he may be). If you're absolutely set on yet another Beethoven cycle, though,  I'd recommend you hold Immerseel on your wishlist and go for the far better Harnoncourt set.

I hear you.  I have the Hogwood and Gardiner Beethoven cycles.  I have the Harnoncourt Beethoven cycle as well.  There may be two other cycles I want to add: Colin Davis and Charles Mackerras.  With 17 Beethoven cycles in my collection already, I do not need another cycle by Immerseel.

[Antoine Marchand]

I hear you.  I have the Hogwood and Gardiner Beethoven cycles.  I have the Harnoncourt Beethoven cycle as well.  There may be two other cycles I want to add: Colin Davis and Charles Mackerras.  With 17 Beethoven cycles in my collection already, I do not need another cycle by Immerseel.

You need Colin Davis, but not Immerseel. Excuse me, Coop, but that doesn't make any musical sense at all.

BTW, I have both sets.

[Gurn Blanston]

You need Colin Davis, but not Immerseel. Excuse me, Coop, but that doesn't make any musical sense at all.

BTW, I have both sets.

  Me too. If I had to dump one...

But if I was going to have to decide between Davis and Mackerras, another no-brainer. Actually, I have all 3...



----------------
Listening to:
Academy of Ancient Music \ Hogwood - Hob 01 096 Symphony in D 1st mvmt - Adagio - Allegro

[Coopmv]

  Me too. If I had to dump one...

But if I was going to have to decide between Davis and Mackerras, another no-brainer. Actually, I have all 3...



----------------
Listening to:
Academy of Ancient Music \ Hogwood - Hob 01 096 Symphony in D 1st mvmt - Adagio - Allegro

I just weeded out Immerseel Beethoven cycle simply because I do not want to get another HIP cycle by a conductor I know very little about while I practically grew up with recordings by Davis and Mackerras ...

[Gurn Blanston]

I just weeded out Immerseel Beethoven cycle simply because I do not want to get another HIP cycle by a conductor I know very little about while I practically grew up with recordings by Davis and Mackerras ...

Mackerras is one of the all-time great living (or not living, for that matter) conductors, IMO. Whether you like HIP or not, doesn't matter. He transcends that sort of pettiness. Also IMO, Davis is not. He never fails to put me to sleep.




----------------
Listening to:
Academy of Ancient Music \ Hogwood - Hob 01 096 Symphony in D 3rd mvmt - Minuetto & Trio: Allegretto

[Coopmv]

Mackerras is one of the all-time great living (or not living, for that matter) conductors, IMO. Whether you like HIP or not, doesn't matter. He transcends that sort of pettiness. Also IMO, Davis is not. He never fails to put me to sleep.




----------------
Listening to:
Academy of Ancient Music \ Hogwood - Hob 01 096 Symphony in D 3rd mvmt - Minuetto & Trio: Allegretto

I don't get too carried away with HIP, particularly when it comes to non-baroque works. 

[Wanderer]

I don't get too carried away with HIP, particularly when it comes to non-baroque works. 

Which is as it should be.

Any opinions on Ashkenazy's Sibelius on Exton?

[Harry]

Gents let me add the best of all those sets and which you forgot completely. Not HIP, but perfect in any other way.
Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich, with a genius at the helm called David Zinman.
There is absolutely no discussion about its worth, for its the best set available.
Believe me. The mother of all Beethoven cycles.
I am serious though!

Listen for yourself!

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ludwig-van-Beethoven-Symphonien-Nr-1-9/hnum/9655618

[Coopmv]

Gents let me add the best of all those sets and which you forgot completely. Not HIP, but perfect in any other way.
Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich, with a genius at the helm called David Zinman.
There is absolutely no discussion about its worth, for its the best set available.
Believe me. The mother of all Beethoven cycles.
I am serious though!

Listen for yourself!

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ludwig-van-Beethoven-Symphonien-Nr-1-9/hnum/9655618

I have had this relatively inexpensive set for a number of years.  I zipped through the set at my first listen but really should revisit and listen through the set carefully ...

[Brian]

       

   

Deleted from the basket:
Mozart/Immerseel (replaced it with Anda)
Beethoven/Immerseel
Haydn/Brautigam
Shostakovich/Jansons
Dvorak/Panocha (waiting for MDT to put them on sale)

Added to the basket:

   



Current total $177
I'm going to try to whittle this down to $120 so I'll have money for the Dvorak boxes when they go on sale. Should probably jettison Kreisler, Eschenbach and Martinon...? (I have the Ravel two-hands concerto, Daphnis, the really famous orchestral pieces, and of Debussy only the stuff orchestrated by Caplet.)

[Coopmv]

Deleted from the basket:
Mozart/Immerseel (replaced it with Anda)
Beethoven/Immerseel
Haydn/Brautigam
Shostakovich/Jansons
Dvorak/Panocha (waiting for MDT to put them on sale)

Added to the basket:

   



Current total $177
I'm going to try to whittle this down to $120 so I'll have money for the Dvorak boxes when they go on sale. Should probably jettison Kreisler, Eschenbach and Martinon...? (I have the Ravel two-hands concerto, Daphnis, the really famous orchestral pieces, and of Debussy only the stuff orchestrated by Caplet.)

I have the set by Gilels and the twofers by Eschenbach ...

[Renfield]

Any opinions on Ashkenazy's Sibelius on Exton?

I have the disc with Tapiola, the 2nd Symphony and 'The Swan of Tuonela'. I recall liking it, but not to any spectacular extent.

If the quality of this disc is comparable to the rest, as a cycle, they'd be somewhere close to where the last Ashkenazy Sibelius cycle was, only a bit more measured and with a firmer hand on the helm, in terms of conducting and overall musicianship.

However, do note that I'm not crazy about Ashkenazy's Sibelius either way; whereas obviously some people are!

[Coopmv]

Deleted from the basket:
Mozart/Immerseel (replaced it with Anda)
Beethoven/Immerseel
Haydn/Brautigam
Shostakovich/Jansons
Dvorak/Panocha (waiting for MDT to put them on sale)

Added to the basket:

   



Current total $177
I'm going to try to whittle this down to $120 so I'll have money for the Dvorak boxes when they go on sale. Should probably jettison Kreisler, Eschenbach and Martinon...? (I have the Ravel two-hands concerto, Daphnis, the really famous orchestral pieces, and of Debussy only the stuff orchestrated by Caplet.)

Brian,  BTW, there is zero incentive to go for the downloads when you can get the actual CD's at these prices ...      

[DavidW]

Current total $177
I'm going to try to whittle this down to $120 so I'll have money for the Dvorak boxes when they go on sale. Should probably jettison Kreisler, Eschenbach and Martinon...? (I have the Ravel two-hands concerto, Daphnis, the really famous orchestral pieces, and of Debussy only the stuff orchestrated by Caplet.)

The Martinon is a very good choice.  Eschenbach is neither the first nor last choice in Beethoven though, even in the bargain price range there are many choices that will be better.  Now as for the VSs, I think I personally prefer Kreisler for offering something really different from other interpretations you can hear.  Grumiaux, while a great violinist, offers nothing new or particularly insightful from the modern camp.

[Brian]

Brian,  BTW, there is zero incentive to go for the downloads when you can get the actual CD's at these prices ...      

I know!    Also, my hard drive and external HD are both full, and buying more CDs is cheaper than buying a new external HD. At least, it is right now.  

Any thoughts on the Eschenbach or Gilels? Worth getting?

DavidW, thanks for the suggestions. I'm looking for my first-ever Beethoven violin sonata set, though; I have the Kreutzer (Thibaud/Cortot, Perlman) and Spring (Perlman), but none of the others.

[Antoine Marchand]

Deleted from the basket:
...
Haydn/Brautigam
...

A huge, huge mistake, Brian.   Although there are another top complete sets (HIP: Schornsheim, Brilliant set; non-HIP: John McCabe), Brautigam is the best in this repertoire. And, listen to Gurn, nobody knows how much time this set will be available.