Recordings That You Are Considering

[Todd]

Whatever may have been lacking in spontaneity was more than compensated with meticulous attention to details.

If you prefer Suzuki's precision to Gardiner's approach, then I would think this is the set to get, provided you want a complete set.  I wouldn't look at the set as something you necessarily need to listen to particularly frequently, but rather as a library edition that gives you access to a perfectly executed version of every cantata that you can listen to at any time.

[kishnevi]

Take a serious look at the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt cycle.  For one thing, it's cheaper than either Gardiner or Suzuki. It is of course not up-to-date HIP* but well done. The one caveat with that set is the use of boy sopranos.  I don't like boy sopranos in general.  But not everyone is like me in that.


* That phrase seems a bit oxymoronic, doesn't it?

[akebergv]

The Leonhardt/Harnoncourt cycle is the version I first got parts of, on vinyl back in the late ´70s, and they still hold their ground in my book, even after aquiring complete (or near complete) sets by Gardiner and Suzuki and what's come out by Herreweghe (all of which I like a lot). The Leonhardt/Harnoncourt cycle is especially cheap right now at Amazon.it: https://www.amazon.it/Bach-Complete-Cantatas-Nikolaus-Harnoncourt/dp/B000RZOR2U/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=sl1&tag=bonsplanscl0c-21&linkId=e68ff91ea7f6c9a2cc2fe0465cf35a6e.

[Jo498]

The Leonhardt/Harnoncourt will sound "scrappy" in places compared to the state-of-the-art-SACD Suzuki and probably also compared to the live Gardiner. This holds for recorded sound, boy singers and instrumental playing (and somewhat frustratingly when the playing gets more secure in the later recordings around 1980, the boy soloist tend to become worse). But there can be no doubt that this is and will probably remain the most epochal set of these works because of the pioneering character and the freshness of the historical approach at that time.

I have heard only two or three discs from the Suzuki. An early disc (including BWV 4) I found surprisingly "bloodless" and boring, a later one (incl. BWV 140) was *much* better, but still clearly in the "perfect, flawlessly executed, but somewhat faceless" category. Lots of people absolutely love his recordings, though.
In any case, I find it a little ironical that Suzuki who often adds confessional statements of his personal protestant faith in the booklets serves fairly neutral (not to say sterile) productions that seem very far from confessional or hearfelt ("inbrünstig" would the old-fashioned German word).

[Madiel]

I've bought all of the Suzuki discs. Not in that box, but in the boxes of 10 discs (15 for the last one) that came out. The initial influence was the consistent praise for the recordings, starting with the Penguin Guide but also appearing elsewhere.

In terms of listening, I'm up to disc 39. It's taken me years, but I'm pretty happy with the experience and I'd say that the style is pretty consistent throughout. If you've enjoyed a couple of discs, it seems probable you'll like all or most of them.

[Jo498]

Take a serious look at the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt cycle.  For one thing, it's cheaper than either Gardiner or Suzuki. It is of course not up-to-date HIP* but well done. The one caveat with that set is the use of boy sopranos.  I don't like boy sopranos in general.  But not everyone is like me in that.

It is actually more HIP than any later cycle because of the consistent use of male singers. It is usually also more "rhetoric" (occasionally to the point of exaggeration). The instrumental playing has become more secure in later cycles but in many other respects they are compromises and "less HIP" than Harnoncourt/Leonhardt.

[mc ukrneal]

Thanks for all the input! I have now managed to listen to some of the Harnoncourt, Rilling and Leusink. Unexpectedly, I enjoyed the Rilling quite a bit - a lot of good singers and no countertenors that I could hear. It is totally different from Suzuki (and a lot cheaper).  I think there are a couple more sets to explore and then if it is down to these two, I can do some comparative listening across several cantatas.

[Jo498]

There are several strong partial cycles.
E.g. Karl Richter for non/proto-HIP (Rilling's is the only complete option with a similar approach) with famous singers of the late 1960s/1970s, Herreweghe who often has great singers and while not very dramatic is beautiful and emotional and Kuijken who uses the one singer per part approach.

Unfortunately only Rilling and Harnoncourt/Leonhardt are (or better used to be at some stage in the past) available as single discs or at least moderate (2-6 discs) portions at a low price to fill gaps. Gardiner/SDG and Suzuki were also available as singles but usually fairly expensive.

[André]

Ever since Harnoncourt/Leonhardt started their complete survey of the cantatas over 40 years ago, I've pondered over whether to jump on the bandwagon or let it go. More complete sets followed, further compounding the problem. In the end, I never seriously considered buying a single complete set. There are just too many caveats and issues to weigh: are all cantatas worth listening ? Am I ready to put aside other explorations in order to give the music its due ? Will the style/musicological approach become outdated as other performers step forward and offer new insights? Am I ready to become « married » to just one approach ?

My answer (I admit by default, faute de mieux) has been to collect individual discs in different styles and interpretations. I find good things in all of them. It's a grab bag, but it's my grab bag.

[mc ukrneal]

There are several strong partial cycles.
E.g. Karl Richter for non/proto-HIP (Rilling's is the only complete option with a similar approach) with famous singers of the late 1960s/1970s, Herreweghe who often has great singers and while not very dramatic is beautiful and emotional and Kuijken who uses the one singer per part approach.

Unfortunately only Rilling and Harnoncourt/Leonhardt are (or better used to be at some stage in the past) available as single discs or at least moderate (2-6 discs) portions at a low price to fill gaps. Gardiner/SDG and Suzuki were also available as singles but usually fairly expensive.

Richter is the one I wanted to listen to next. I wasn't initially able to figure out exactly why the Herreweghe didn't work for me. I listened to his Mass recording and it is so much more urgent and demanding of listening, which I wasn't getting from the cantatas. But your comment makes it clearer for me as well. I didn't like the Kuijken, but then I have a hangup about him, so perhaps it's harder for me to be objective. 

Andre - I've considered that, and it's what I've done to date. And getting a set (particularly a cheaper one) would allow me to continue doing that, with the added bonus of being able to compare. The biggest issue with going that way is that it is just so much more expensive. For me, having heard so few of the cantatas, a set would allow me to hear them, figure out which ones I really like (or like most) and then get additions just for those. My biggest problem is that every cantata I listen to (with a few exceptions) is new to me.

[André]

Economics and logistics do play a role when considering mammoth corpuses. Same reasoning goes with the Scarlatti sonatas and Haydn symphonies, for example. Although they are about half as big (in number of discs) as the Bach cantatas, the same kind of considerations weigh in. Decisions, decisions...

[aligreto]

Take a serious look at the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt cycle.  For one thing, it's cheaper than either Gardiner or Suzuki. It is of course not up-to-date HIP* but well done. The one caveat with that set is the use of boy sopranos.  I don't like boy sopranos in general.  But not everyone is like me in that.

I have all three complete sets by Leonhardt/Harnoncourt, Gardiner and Suzuki and I definitely agree with the caveat on the boy sopranos [along with the fact that not all of the singing by said boy sopranos is up to scratch, some of it being quite weak, I feel].

[Jo498]

Richter is the one I wanted to listen to next. I wasn't initially able to figure out exactly why the Herreweghe didn't work for me. I listened to his Mass recording and it is so much more urgent and demanding of listening, which I wasn't getting from the cantatas. But your comment makes it clearer for me as well. I didn't like the Kuijken, but then I have a hangup about him, so perhaps it's harder for me to be objective. 

Andre - I've considered that, and it's what I've done to date. And getting a set (particularly a cheaper one) would allow me to continue doing that, with the added bonus of being able to compare. The biggest issue with going that way is that it is just so much more expensive. For me, having heard so few of the cantatas, a set would allow me to hear them, figure out which ones I really like (or like most) and then get additions just for those. My biggest problem is that every cantata I listen to (with a few exceptions) is new to me.

DG Archiv put the Richter in a cheapish box a couple of years ago or so.

I do not have a complete recording either and there are probably some cantatas I still do not have. But I cobbled together quite a lot over the years: 35 discs of Harnoncourt/Leonhardt, 13 with Herreweghe, 9 with Richter (one box dedicated to Easter, one to Advent/Christmas), 4-5 each with Rilling and Gardiner, about 9 with East German ensembles from the 70s/80s (mostly Rotzsch cond., some of them are a little staid but other surprisingly good, with stellar solo work by Schreier and others), 2 with Suzuki, 3 with Koopman and a few more singles/anthologies.
Of course among those who recorded only a selection, the more famous pieces (and those for the big holidays) dominate, also the solo cantatas (I have probably 5-6 of "Kreuzstab" and "Ich habe genug")

[Madiel]

In the end, I never seriously considered buying a single complete set. There are just too many caveats and issues to weigh: are all cantatas worth listening ? Am I ready to put aside other explorations in order to give the music its due ? Will the style/musicological approach become outdated as other performers step forward and offer new insights? Am I ready to become « married » to just one approach ?

Heh. I am the COMPLETE opposite to you. There's a set, it consistently gets good reviews, I sampled, it sounded good. Done. Though what I'm describing in one line often takes a few years.

I get married to one approach all the time. I know that most of GMG spends its time constantly discussing which recordings one should have to be aware of the different approaches to a piece of music, but I just can't be bothered unless and until I feel there's something dissatisfying about whichever version I originally chose. The whole point of my (often slow) process of making a decision on which recording to acquire is to then put aside the question and be happy with the decision that I made.

[Sergeant Rock]

Unexpectedly, I enjoyed the Rilling quite a bit - a lot of good singers and no countertenors that I could hear.

A definite plus. The reason I've avoided digging deep into Harnoncourt/Leonhardt is their use of boy sopranos and male altos. Historically correct, of course, but I live, thank god, in the 21st century, a time and place where we have women 

Sarge

[Parsifal]

A definite plus. The reason I've avoided digging deep into Harnoncourt/Leonhardt is their use of boy sopranos and male altos. Historically correct, of course, but I live, thank god, in the 21st century, a time and place where we have women 

They didn't have women in those days.  Something doesn't add up...

[aligreto]

They didn't have women in those days.  Something doesn't add up...

[milk]

Does anyone have a high opinion of this?

[Dancing Divertimentian]

A definite plus. The reason I've avoided digging deep into Harnoncourt/Leonhardt is their use of boy sopranos and male altos. Historically correct, of course, but I live, thank god, in the 21st century, a time and place where we have women 

Sarge

It's also historically correct that Bach was THE most exacting of music directors. So I'd lay odds he disliked boy sopranos more than we do.

[amw]

Sonatas & Partitas: Lucy van Dael or Ingrid Matthews? (Assuming you had to make a choice.)