Recordings That You Are Considering

[mc ukrneal]

I guess a negative comment is always a more touchy subject than words of praise, but it is just an opinion like any other. I only implied I would prefer Schiff or Perahiah. I don't think it is necessarily a bad performance as such, "classic" Old School, painted on a broad Romantic canvas and Ashkenazy excelling in virtuosity. But ultimately it is as simple as that Ashkenazy's Mozart doesn't speak to me - and there is no accounting for that.

Q

Fair enough. I probably read more into it than you meant.

By the way, I was just listening to the Richafort/Nevel performance again, and what a glorious disc. It's a very nuanced performance.

[Mandryka]

Unlike Premont, I think Richter's Partitas set is excellent.  I should point out that I think highly of his Goldbergs as well.

Well I have now listened to Partita 4.

First thought. You were right. It is exciting.  If you like the sort of excitement that's there then you should try Blandine Verlet's first recording on Philips -- not the Astree one, which is very different.

Second thoughts.  There's not much interesting going on with the counterpoint , the balancing of the voices. And I didn't notice any interesting ideas about ornamentation or phrasing.

Third thought. We've kind of grown up since Richter made those recordings. I expect a much more refined and subtle harpsichord sound, I expect more expression, I expect more ideas about voice leading than just playing everything in sync and equally balanced. This Richter recording sounds . . .jejeune.

[Wakefield]

Well I have now listened to Partita 4.

First thought. You were right. It is exciting.  If you like the sort of excitement that's there then you should try Blandine Verlet's first recording on Philips -- not the Astree one, which is very different.

Second thoughts.  There's not much interesting going on with the counterpoint , the balancing of the voices. And I didn't notice any interesting ideas about ornamentation or phrasing.

Third thought. We've kind of grown up since Richter made those recordings. I expect a much more refined and subtle harpsichord sound, I expect more expression, I expect more ideas about voice leading than just playing everything in sync and equally balanced. This Richter recording sounds . . .jejeune.

I have serious troubles with your message, Mandrika.

What does "excitement" mean here? It's hard to speak of excitement when are lacking all those elements mentioned in your second and third thoughts.

Additionally, I don't see any similarity between Richter and Verlet, who is properly a modern (or second-generation) harpsichordist (as we see this notion today).

[prémont]

Orlando Consort, Songs from Le Voir Dit, Machaut.

Does the booklet contain a translation of  the whole of Le Voir Dit? How does it compare with Oxford Camerata?

I do not own the Orlando Consort CD. It is now on my wishlist.

[prémont]

I have serious troubles with your message, Mandrika.

What does "excitement" mean here? It's hard to speak of excitement when are lacking all those elements mentioned in your second and third thoughts.

I think Mandryka means exiting in a rather primitive almost physical way. I often get similar feelings when listening to Karl Richter´s harpsichord- or organ playing.

[Mandryka]

I do not own the Orlando Consort CD. It is now on my wishlist.

A friend has it told me that the booklet doesn't contain the whole poem, which is apparently very long. He also said he had mixed feelings about the performance, I'm afraid. I only know the music through the Naxos recording with Oxford Camerata. I don't find the guy who sings Le Lay de Bonne Espérance there specially appealing.

I plan on hunting out a copy of the poem in Modern French next time I'm in Paris (in a couple of weeks partly to hear Hantai and Amandine Beyer play Bach sonatas.)

[Sammy]

Well I have now listened to Partita 4.

First thought. You were right. It is exciting.  If you like the sort of excitement that's there then you should try Blandine Verlet's first recording on Philips -- not the Astree one, which is very different.

Second thoughts.  There's not much interesting going on with the counterpoint , the balancing of the voices. And I didn't notice any interesting ideas about ornamentation or phrasing.

Third thought. We've kind of grown up since Richter made those recordings. I expect a much more refined and subtle harpsichord sound, I expect more expression, I expect more ideas about voice leading than just playing everything in sync and equally balanced. This Richter recording sounds . . .jejeune.

Well, you seem to want "everything".  From my perspective, I just enjoy what Richter does bring to the table.  When I want qualities that Richter doesn't offer, I shift to other artists and the strengths they present. 

[prémont]

Well, you seem to want "everything".  From my perspective, I just enjoy what Richter does bring to the table.  When I want qualities that Richter doesn't offer, I shift to other artists and the strengths they present.

Well, I take your words in that way, that you admit Richter offers very little of interest. I agree completely. 

[Sammy]

Well, I take your words in that way, that you admit Richter offers very little of interest. I agree completely. 

No, I only admitted that Richter does not offer everything.  As it happens, no performing artist offers everything.  That's one of the basic reasons why we acquire many different recordings of our favorite works.

[Mandryka]

When I said he was jejune, what I meant was this. Later musicians (you all know who I mean but I guess Leonhardt's Seon recording would be a good example) have shown that there is so much more to the music than you would ever guess from Karl Richter. It's like there's been progress -- we've learned how to translate the score into something infinitely richer than Richter ever dreamed of. Richter's way is not just a different way of playing Bach, it's an inferior way. Inferior in every way.

And yes, Gordo has a point. I think it is exciting, but I wouldn't want to overstate that. He rarely achieves the sort of ecstatic excitement that Walcha does all the time  in The English Suites. And Verlet is probably much more exciting in the Partitas.

[Sammy]

When I said he was jejune, what I meant was this. Later musicians (you all know who I mean but I guess but Leonhardt's Seon recording would be a good example) have shown that there is so much more to the music than you would ever guess from Karl Richter. It's like there's been progress -- we've learned how to translate the score into something infinitely richer than Richter ever dreamed of. Richter's way is not just a different way of playing Bach, it's an inferior way. Inferior in every way.

That's an extreme opinion I can't share.

[kishnevi]

Well, I take your words in that way, that you admit Richter offers very little of interest. I agree completely. 

In regard to Richter the Bach conductor,  I will nominate this as the worst recording of a Bach cantata

Lethargic and sleep inducing, which is strange considering the cantata's title.  The Magnificat is better but not good enough to make up for the cantata.

[jlaurson]

Thank you all!  I'd really like a complete set of Mozart symphonies so further research is needed.  The Harnoncourt sounds tempting. Szell and Mackerras are standouts for me in the late symphonies, as well as individual recordings by Bernstein (40 & 41) and Menuhin (35 & 36).  I was always pretty much satisfied with only the late symphonies, but now find myself wanting to explore further.

I know there are mixed feelings about Uchida around here, but the draw for me is that I own the complete sonatas as well as the etudes and love both recordings. Octave, I do not own any Mozart PC's at this point. I also happen to love the Perahia disc I own, so Perahia could be the one.

I have several sets of Brahms symphonies, but the draw with the Haitink box is the additional material. Plus, another set of syms. can't hurt.

Congrats re. Harnoncourt. For the early symphonies (or as a whole set) consider also the Danish CO and Fischer Adam.
For the late symphonies, do not -- Je repete -- do not miss out on Krips, which is old fashioned in some ways, perhaps, but as light on its toes as any Mozart ever will be. Just tremendous: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2011/06/why-haydn-should-be-mandatory.html

Boehm is wonderful in some movements, throughout the entire set... early and late symphonies, but just as you are reeling with surprise at the musicality, on comes a slow movement where your feet fall asleep.

In regard to Richter the Bach conductor,  I will nominate this as the worst recording of a Bach cantata
Lethargic and sleep inducing, which is strange considering the cantata's title.  The Magnificat is better but not good enough to make up for the cantata.

One man's hemlock is another man's poison. It could be said to be frightfully lugubrious. It could also be embraced, whole-heartedly, as choral sculpting at its most indulgent-beautiful.

[Mandryka]

 

Jean Charles Ablitzer /Ian Honeyman play Orgelbuechlein.

This thing has been re-released cheaply on itunes only as far as I can see. Is that right, or is it available on a high quality site?  What's the music quality like on itunes now? The original CDs are too expensive in the UK (I'd have to pay tax to import them from the US), unless someone tells me that this is a really special performance.

[Que]

Jean Charles Ablitzer /Ian Honeyman play Orgelbuechlein.

This thing has been re-released cheaply on itunes only as far as I can see. Is that right, or is it available on a high quality site?  What's the music quality like on itunes now? The original CDs are too expensive in the UK (I'd have to pay tax to import them from the US), unless someone tells me that this is a really special performance.

I love it and think it is a special recording.  But considering the fact that I'm hardly an expert in these matters and that our tastes seem to diverge in these area, I not sure that is of much help...
It got a Diapason d'Or, if that is of any significance to you.

Downloads of Harmonic Classics used to be available in high quality downloads at MicMac, but that site disappeared.
iTunes seems to be to only show in town. Another option is to order a CD-R - see the Harmonic website.

Q

[Mandryka]

Cheers que (How can someone be named after a relative pronoun in French? It's like someone being called "that". Or is it your initials?) . I've written to Harmonic Classics. If they can indeed provide a CD then that would be very satisfying.

[Que]

Cheers que (How can someone be named after a relative pronoun in French? It's like someone being called "that". Or is it your initials?) . I've written to Harmonic Classics. If they can indeed provide a CD then that would be very satisfying.

Well, I didn't have particularly French in mind when I made it up - désolé.   Remember it sounds quite different in English...

Now on the CD-R: I ordered the 6th and last volume of Ablitzer's Buxtehude series (which never was issued as a regular CD) and the result looked and sounded fine.

Q

[Bogey]

Looking for another KV 9.  Any recs beyond this recording?  Any HIP like ones out there?

[marvinbrown]

  I need to supplement my Fischer Box of COMPLETE Haydn symphonies (Brilliant Label) with the late symphonies, namely the Paris and London symphonies.  Reason: Fischer recorded these symphonies first but got progressively better as he worked his way back to Haydn's earlier symphonies. I would like to hear a clearer if not better interpretation.  I am thinking one of these 2 sets:

  [asin]B001DCQI9Q[/asin]

  OR

  [asin]B001TKK39S[/asin]

  Oh yes...there it is again Karajan vs. Bernstein. I do realize that Karajan has the better orchestra here while Bernstein has the added advantage of the masses and the Creation, or should I look elsewhere?.......... what to do? what to do?

  marvin

[Sergeant Rock]

I need to supplement my Fischer Box of COMPLETE Haydn symphonies (Brilliant Label) with the late symphonies, namely the Paris and London symphonies.  Reason: Fischer recorded these symphonies first but got progressively better as he worked his way back to Haydn's earlier symphonies. I would like to hear a clearer if not better interpretation...there it is again Karajan vs. Bernstein.

No contest: Bernstein. He had a real flair for the idiom. This is big band Haydn which is not a problem in the Paris and Londons (composed for the period's big bands).

But you might want to look beyond that. You want "clearer" recordings? Fey is outstanding in the Paris set; the wind and brass (period) detail striking:

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My favorite set of Londons also offers those advantages (very aggressive, thrilling brass): Norrington in Stuttgart:

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Minkowski's Londons are also worth thinking about

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Sarge