Recordings That You Are Considering

[Cosi bel do]

Hello,

I'm strongly considering the Haitink Symphony Edition box set scheduled for release in March.  All recordings are with the RCO. I'm particularly curious about the Bruckner and Mahler symphonies. I already have complete Bruckner by Jochum (EMI) and Karajan and complete Mahler by Bernstein NY and Bertini, as well as individual recordings by both.  Would the addition of Haitink in this repertoire be worthwhile, or not so much? I'm taking into account the price which seems right, and the fact that I love Haitink in pretty much everything I own by him.

But what do you have by him ?
The RCO studio recordings by Haitink are not among the best anymore in Mahler, and have never been in Bruckner. With a few exceptions (the 3rd in Mahler, for instance). THe fact that the RCO in the late sixties was in a period of transition and not at all at the best of its form is partly responsible for that (the fact that Haitink is too cold in general also is).

Considering what you say you have, if you want another set of Bruckner symphonies, I might recommend the other Jochum (DG), or Celibidache for a wholly different point of view. But the most important would be to listen to other conductors who did not necessarily do a complete cycle but who are still essential (Furtwängler, Knappertsbusch, ), and in isolated recordings that are among the best. The 8th by Jochum in Hamburg for instance (DG), or his 5th in Concertgebouw (Philips). Or the late Wand live recordings with NDR and the Berliner. There are not that many great Bruckner complete sets actually (aside from Jochum)...

The same goes for Mahler. Except that if you already have Bernstein/Sony and Bertini, I'd say Tennstedt would be my first recommendation (and then, also, the second Bernstein (DG), the incomplete cycle by Klemperer, the live Abbado in Berlin).

[NJ Joe]

But what do you have by him ?
The RCO studio recordings by Haitink are not among the best anymore in Mahler, and have never been in Bruckner. With a few exceptions (the 3rd in Mahler, for instance). THe fact that the RCO in the late sixties was in a period of transition and not at all at the best of its form is partly responsible for that (the fact that Haitink is too cold in general also is).

Considering what you say you have, if you want another set of Bruckner symphonies, I might recommend the other Jochum (DG), or Celibidache for a wholly different point of view. But the most important would be to listen to other conductors who did not necessarily do a complete cycle but who are still essential (Furtwängler, Knappertsbusch, ), and in isolated recordings that are among the best. The 8th by Jochum in Hamburg for instance (DG), or his 5th in Concertgebouw (Philips). Or the late Wand live recordings with NDR and the Berliner. There are not that many great Bruckner complete sets actually (aside from Jochum)...

The same goes for Mahler. Except that if you already have Bernstein/Sony and Bertini, I'd say Tennstedt would be my first recommendation (and then, also, the second Bernstein (DG), the incomplete cycle by Klemperer, the live Abbado in Berlin).

Thank you for your response.  What I have by Haitink:  Shostakovich and Vaughn Williams complete symphonies, Phillips double discs of Debussy, Stravinsky, and Ravel, the Beethoven LSO symphonies, and Brahms 3 and 4 by the Boston SO which I adore. You may have talked me down off the ledge on this one.

[Cosi bel do]

Well, with Haitink, it's always difficult. There are a few really excellent recordings (as the Brahms with BSO), many really valuable recordings (Debussy for instance, or Vaughan Williams) and he is rarely really not good. But I feel that nearly everywhere (Shostakovich, Stravinsky, or even Debussy by the way) his readings are a little cold, formal (sometimes even frankly boring), and in the end when you know the discography of a piece quite well, whatever are your musical preferences, Haitink is never the first to come to mind when you think about your favourite version of a piece. Of course, with a few exceptions (as I was saying, the Mahler 3rd with RCO studio is still among the best, and even if I find it full of problems his 9th is certainly a version to know).

[prémont]

The Ludus Tonalis is absolutely fabulous. (I'm assuming it's in that box)

It is in that box. But do you mean the work is fabulous or this particular recording? If you mean the latter, I will purchase it separately.

[NJ Joe]

Well, with Haitink, it's always difficult. There are a few really excellent recordings (as the Brahms with BSO), many really valuable recordings (Debussy for instance, or Vaughan Williams) and he is rarely really not good. But I feel that nearly everywhere (Shostakovich, Stravinsky, or even Debussy by the way) his readings are a little cold, formal (sometimes even frankly boring), and in the end when you know the discography of a piece quite well, whatever are your musical preferences, Haitink is never the first to come to mind when you think about your favourite version of a piece. Of course, with a few exceptions (as I was saying, the Mahler 3rd with RCO studio is still among the best, and even if I find it full of problems his 9th is certainly a version to know).

Yes, I would tend to agree with you here, however, in Haitink I find a remarkable consistency.  Refined, perhaps, but never boring. His style in Stravinsky is indeed more subdued than others, however, I find it to be magnetic in it's own way, as most of his takes on everything else. I was exaggerating when I stated I "loved" everything I had. But there's nothing I'd want to be without.

[mc ukrneal]

I like Haitink too, but since you already have others, you may find his interpretations of Mahler and Bruckner more middle of the road. The one exception for me is the second Bruckner 9 he did. It is not only a great performance, but the sound is about as good it can be. It's one of my favorite cds. But don't mix it up with the first take (both were with the Concertgebouw). It was this one when issued as a single:

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I like Haitink too, but since you already have others, you may find his interpretations of Mahler and Bruckner more middle of the road. The one exception for me is the second Bruckner 9 he did. It is not only a great performance, but the sound is about as good it can be.

Yes indeed. Around 1980, he remade Bruckner 7, 8 and 9. These are among the best performances of these symphonies I've ever heard. Unfortunately, they're kind of hard to find nowadays. (That same 9th was also issued with an abstract geometric-looking cover, which you should also look out for.)

[Sergeant Rock]

Yes, I would tend to agree with you here, however, in Haitink I find a remarkable consistency.  Refined, perhaps, but never boring. His style in Stravinsky is indeed more subdued than others, however, I find it to be magnetic in it's own way, as most of his takes on everything else. I was exaggerating when I stated I "loved" everything I had. But there's nothing I'd want to be without.

I think you just answered your own question about the symphony box.

In any case, I second Cosi's recommendation of Haitink's M3 and M9, and third Neal and Velimir's recommendation of Haitink's second Bruckner 9.

Sarge

[Mandryka]

It is in that box. But do you mean the work is fabulous or this particular recording? If you mean the latter, I will purchase it separately.

I meant the performance. I can't explain it really, he makes it soumd like exciting music, full of interesting ideas, attractive melodies, different emotions.

[Mirror Image]

When these come out Feb. 25th, I'm buying them all:

[NJ Joe]

Thanks everyone, for your help.  I'm leaning toward the individual performances mentioned.  Used copies all seem to be available on Amazon.

[Cosi bel do]

Thanks everyone, for your help.  I'm leaning toward the individual performances mentioned.  Used copies all seem to be available on Amazon.

You should also seek later Mahler performances by Haitink, with the Berliner in studio, and live with the Berliner (on DVD) and the Concertgebouw.
But these are hard to find, most of them anyway (the 2nd and 6th with Berlin, the Kerstmatinees performances, the Mahler Feest set, etc.)

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

When these come out Feb. 25th, I'm buying them all:

I thought you didn't like any Pettersson after #8.  Are you re-thinking him too?

[prémont]

I meant the performance. I can't explain it really, he makes it soumd like exciting music, full of interesting ideas, attractive melodies, different emotions.

Thanks. I have ordered the box, since it only costs a few Euro´s more than the individual Ludus.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Getting out my old vinyl makes me want to give Pettersson another shot. Specifically looking at the 6th:

And also considering his songs, sung by Monica Groop:



I listened to a few of the Barefoot Songs on YouTube. Charming and haunting, like a completely different composer from the symphonist he became.

[Mandryka]

Jan Willem Jansen plays Louis Couperin

Any other ideas for Louis Couperin on organ appreciated. I have Moroney's set and a couple of short pieces played by Peter Hurford. But this is great music, can it really be the case that no other organists besides Moroney have taken up the fugues?  But if so, I can't find it.

[Mirror Image]

I thought you didn't like any Pettersson after #8.  Are you re-thinking him too?

I am, but will freely admit he'll never be a favorite of mine.

[prémont]

Jan Willem Jansen plays Louis Couperin

Any other ideas for Louis Couperin on organ appreciated. I have Moroney's set and a couple of short pieces played by Peter Hurford. But this is great music, can it really be the case that no other organists besides Moroney have taken up the fugues?  But if so, I can't find it.

There is this one:

http://www.landgoedgerianna.nl/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,6226/category_id,74/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,39/

[Ken B]

Petterson is new to me. I liked 7.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Petterson is new to me. I liked 7.

7's a good one.

My intro to Pettersson was a radio broadcast of the Chicago Symphony playing his 8th Symphony (yes, the CSO really did!) back in the 80s. I followed up and liked most of what I heard. Then I encountered the 13th Symphony, which was the most irritating and intractable piece of music I'd ever heard. It was like having an allergic reaction, and I stopped listening to him for years.