Brahms vs. Dvorak

[Mirror Image]

Who do you prefer? Brahms or Dvorak?

[Mirror Image]

For me the choice was easy: Dvorak.

[Ataraxia]

For me the choice was easy: Brahms.

[DavidW]

I prefer Brahms though both are great.

[Lisztianwagner]

What a very interesting challenge!

Although I really love Dvořák, I think Brahms will get my vote at the end.

[Mirror Image]

I suppose it might be a cliche now to liking Dvorak's Symphony No. 9 "From the New World" but I like this symphony better than any of Brahms. I think I like the inherent folky qualities of Dvorak's music much better and they appeal to me more than Brahms more serious, large Germanic sound-world. Don't get me wrong, I think Brahms was an outstanding composer, but I respond more to Dvorak's musical language.

Other Dvorak works I love: Symphonies 7 & 8, the Cello Concerto, all of the tone poems (especially The Water Goblin and The Wild Dove), the Slavonic Dances, and I really love Dvorak's chamber works too.

[nico1616]

I suppose it might be a cliche now to liking Dvorak's Symphony No. 9 "From the New World" but I like this symphony better than any of Brahms. I think I like the inherent folky qualities of Dvorak's music much better and they appeal to me more than Brahms more serious, large Germanic sound-world. Don't get me wrong, I think Brahms was an outstanding composer, but I respond more to Dvorak's musical language.

Other Dvorak works I love: Symphonies 7 & 8, the Cello Concerto, all of the tone poems (especially The Water Goblin and The Wild Dove), the Slavonic Dances, and I really love Dvorak's chamber works too.

Brahms has two of the best piano concertos and the best violin concerto (equals Beethoven's). His late piano pieces (opus 116-119) are gold just as his clarinet quintet. But Brahms has no operas, and Dvorak has Rusalka. Brahms has no cello concerto (his double concerto is not that great) and Dvorak has the greatest of all.
As symphonists, to me they are of equal stature, but with the tone poems as an extra, Dvorak has the edge there.

In the end I just can't choose, you call that the banana option I believe 

Nico

[Bulldog]

I'll go with Dvorak; I listen to him more frequently (primarily because of his chamber works).  But I do love the Brahms Handel Variations more than any work from Dvorak.

[Mirror Image]

Brahms has two of the best piano concertos and the best violin concerto (equals Beethoven's). His late piano pieces (opus 116-119) are gold just as his clarinet quintet. But Brahms has no operas, and Dvorak has Rusalka. Brahms has no cello concerto (his double concerto is not that great) and Dvorak has the greatest of all.
As symphonists, to me they are of equal stature, but with the tone poems as an extra, Dvorak has the edge there.

In the end I just can't choose, you call that the banana option I believe 

Nico

At the end of the day, though, it's still who do you prefer? That's the initial question. It's no question that these composers were masters of their craft, but, again, I like the earthy qualities of Dvorak more than Brahms.

[Leon]

Brahms for me.  Dvorak, while I do listen to him, does not figure large in my regular rotation.  However, there are few composers for whom I would vote Brahms off the island.  The late "autumnal" clarinet works are huge favorites of mine, as well as most of the solo piano rep and, of course, the symphonies.

Brahms was a Romantic composer, through and through, but he managed to extend and elaborate upon the Classical tradition of Beethoven and Haydn more successfully than any of his contemporaries.  And I think, because of it, he has enjoyed a lasting influence in later composers (such as Schoenberg) whereas Dvorak, a very gifted composer for sure, is somewhat of a also ran, IMO.

[Bulldog]

Brahms was a Romantic composer, through and through, but he managed to extend and elaborate upon the Classical tradition of Beethoven and Haydn more successfully than any of his contemporaries.  And I think, because of it, he has enjoyed a lasting influence in later composers (such as Schoenberg) whereas Dvorak, a very gifted composer for sure, is somewhat of a also ran, IMO.

I know that a lot of the members here place a high priority on how much influence certain composers had on others.  My only concern is the enjoyment and spiritual rise I get from music.

[Luke]

Brahms, for sure. I love a great deal of Dvorak. I adore every single note of Brahms. Dvorak has qualities Brahms doesn't possess, certainly, but Brahms has a never-ending technical resourcefulness and soulfulness, and the two are held in the most exquisite of balances. There are no composers who move me emotionally as consistently as Brahms does, and its the tension between these two facets which do this to me. Dvorak can be as beautiful as anyone, more radiant than almost any other composer, he can, as I said, do things that Brahms can't. But he doesn't reach that place Brahms so frequently does, that rarified area where everything is said with the most sublime, jaw-dropping inspiration, where the technique is always, always up to the ideas, and where what is being said is of such emotional urgency, cogency and inevitability. Even Beethoven rarely achieves that.  IMO, of course.

[starrynight]

As good as Dvorak can be the best of Brahms tends to be better than the best of Dvorak.  in symphonies, chamber music, concertos, even possibly vocal music.  Dvorak himself probably wouldn't have wanted the comparison.

[Luke]

I agree - Dvorak would have voted for Brahms. The counter-argument to that would be that Brahms was well aware of those things that Dvorak was capable of which he couldn't access, and was even good-naturedly jealous of them. But that's the point - it was a good-natured jealousy, as if Brahms himself knew that these things Dvorak could do - that open-hearted, bucolic honesty and directness, for instance, that way with a melody, too - were desirable but not of the deepest importance. Put another way - Brahms valued Dvorak too, but would have voted for Brahms in the end also! 

[Gurn Blanston]

For me the choice was easy; Dvorak.

[Leon]

This thread has caused me to put on Brahms' 1st, by John Eliot Gardiner.

This is well nigh a perfect recording, IMO.  A lean, transparent performance (with all of Brahms' subtle and complex orchestration and counter melodies brimming beautifully), and with natural horns, and reduced strings and period winds - the music is lighter but not without weight. 

Gardiner's 1st is usually given the highest praise, but I find his take on all four to be a breath of fresh air after so much of Karajan's and Walter's overly (IMO) heaviness.

Tempos are quick but I don't think he outpaces Toscanini, and the middle movements are done with nuanced portamento and other expressive period touches.  This is a cooler Brahms but not unfeeling by any stretch - the emotion is not on the sleeve but churning in the undercurrent.

[Winky Willy]

the Brahmski

[mszczuj]

Dvorak. The frogs decided.

[Mirror Image]

One of the great things about these kinds of polls, even as ridiculous as they are, is it pushes people to voice their opinion about their choice and it, hopefully, will cause the person with a different opinion to re-evaluate the music of the other composer.

For example, in the Shostakovich vs. Prokofiev thread, I chose Shostakovich, but, while I did cast my vote in his favor, I found myself terribly out-of-touch with Prokofiev's music, so, in that exploratory spirit, I investigated a lot of the Prokofiev recordings I already owned and I even bought many more. I came away with a greater appreciation for Prokofiev's music.

[eyeresist]

Very difficult, but finally, however great Brahms may be, Dvorak gives me more joy.