Objective review of the US 2012 Presidential and Congressional general campaign

[Gurn Blanston]

What really boggles me is the number of news analysts who feel that the debate was a draw on substance, but Ryan won on "style"!   

Ryan didn't win on any level and the "style points" that Biden lost for laughing out loud were, well, shit, I was laughing out loud too! What intelligent person wasn't?

I hate the media nearly as much as I hate congress. Did I ever mention that? 

[Sammy]

I thought both guys did okay; neither was as good as Romney or pathetic as Obama.

Can't imagine anyone changing their preference based on last night's showing.

Personally, I found the debate rather boring compared to Romney-Obama.  Biden-Ryan was just as one would have predicted, but in the previous debate Romney was surprisingly at the top of his game while Obama was even more surprisingly at the bottom.

[Gurn Blanston]

I thought both guys did okay; neither was as good as Romney or pathetic as Obama.

Can't imagine anyone changing their preference based on last night's showing.

Personally, I found the debate rather boring compared to Romney-Obama.  Biden-Ryan was just as one would have predicted, but in the previous debate Romney was surprisingly at the top of his game while Obama was even more surprisingly at the bottom.

My gut feeling is that in next week's debate, Barry will be ready for Romney to totally disavow the last 5 years of his own rhetoric and hand him his ass in return. I was frankly stunned (as Obama was, I think) when Romney repeatedly said "oh, that's not what I stand for..." to everything. Well, he got away with it, and more power to him. 

[Daverz]

Can't imagine anyone changing their preference based on last night's showing.

I can't imagine anyone making a decision based on any of these debates, but I don't get out much.

I thought both guys did okay; neither was as good as Romney or pathetic as Obama.

Romney was pretty good at lying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r6TA1PNG_M

[Todd]

Even paleo George is now on board.  Will Romney have the balls to say what needs to be said, to offer to do what needs to be done?  Kudos to Mr Will for bringing up economies of scale in finance, which really don't exist.  I mean, come on, the Rothschilds financed Wellesley, and American banks managed to pony up funds for the two great wars of the last century, all at a smaller absolute and relative scale than now.  Break the big boys up, whether under the guise of anti-trust legislation, or whatever.

[CriticalI]

The horse-race in debate performance so far:

1. Romney
2. Biden
3. Ryan
4. Obama

How about a Romney/Biden ticket?

[Todd]

How about a Romney/Biden ticket?

That would never happen, though it would be possible for a Romney/Biden administration.

[Todd]

Hillary covers for her boss.  Makes one line of attack for this evening's debate less effective.  Alas, I may not be able to watch tonight's debate.  (Why can't they schedule these things around my needs and wants?  Sheesh.)

[TheGSMoeller]

http://www.youtube.com/v/QlwilbVYvUg#!

An incorrect lip-reading of the first Presidential Debate. Make it to the 2:20 mark, it's worth it.

[ibanezmonster]

An incorrect lip-reading of the first Presidential Debate. Make it to the 2:20 mark, it's worth it.

Hmmm... lol.

[mahler10th]

I missed the Presidential debate last night, being too tired to stay up and watch it.  However, I have caught up with it, and I am so glad that this time around Obama did some rattling this time.

[Mirror Image]

I missed the Presidential debate last night, being too tired to stay up and watch it.  However, I have caught up with it, and I am so glad that this time around Obama did some rattling this time.

Well I just think Romney's policies are for the wealthy 1% of the United States and not with common, everyday people. Obama recognizes this and he capitalized on it --- big time. This moment in the debate was priceless:

http://www.youtube.com/v/NXkLYIZabWE

[Todd]

I got to watch the last 30 or so minutes live, and then about 30 minutes or so from earlier on when it was repeated - on PBS, which may soon die.  (No, of course it won't).  Obama was much better this time around, more aggressive, more detailed in some answers, and he struck me as the winner, if there was one.  Romney fumbled here and there, but he wasn't smacked down.

A few things struck me as humorous or interesting about this debate:

1.) Obama trotted out his anti-tire dumping policy from early in his Administration.  Really?  Tires.  A thousand jobs supposedly saved in the sea of millions lost?  A small ball answer if ever there was one.

2.) Obama got stuck in a "there's an app for that" mode.  There's this government program, that one, that one over there, etc.  Why, a college tax credit "grows the economy" per the Prez, though I thought that investments in human capital resulted in longer term benefits and a higher potential economic growth rate and has little to do with increasing economic activity now or in the near term.  Perhaps if citizens can wait 4-10 years, everything will be better.

3.) Along the same lines, a questioner named Mary asked Romney about which deductions he would eliminate, and she singled out education credits, because she has a kid, or kids, in college.  Her question pointed out a big problem in this country in how tax deductions and credits are misperceived.  Something like two thirds of all deductions and credits go to the top quintile.  But hell no, they can't be touched, because middle income folks get hurt.  They lose their entitlements.  Or something like that.

4.) Romney was very careful to point out that the rich will pay the same share of taxes.  That's different than rates.  Oh, and he was apparently in the private sector for a while.  I did not know that.

5.) Apple got some free press in one of the most misleading Q&A session exchanges I've ever witnessed in what was supposed to be a serious forum.  Said Ms Crowley: IPad, the Macs, the iPhones, they are all manufactured in China, and one of the major reasons is labor is so much cheaper there. How do you convince a great American company to bring that manufacturing back here?  What, no mention of where the vast majority of benefits go?  Hell, this has even been studied by academicians..  (More than once, too; other studies are available for free right now.)  The way forward for America, apparently, is to focus more on expanding low value-added manufacturing. If Romney labels China a currency manipulator – on day one, no less – that will make it all better, too.

6.) I still did not hear any credible plans for expanding the economy or dealing with fiscal realities.  I'd say next time, but next time is the foreign policy debate.  (I had thought this one was going to be originally.)  Romney had best change his game plan for that debate.  (Alas, next week I have the choice of watching the debate, or hearing Paul Lewis play the last three Schubert sonatas in recital.  I think I know which I'll spend my time on.)

[Karl Henning]

4.) Romney was very careful to point out that the rich will pay the same share of taxes.  That's different than rates.

I'm sure he's worked out the math there, then ; )

You've got to go with Schubert, but you knew that.

[CriticalI]

I'm not a fan of this roaming "town hall" format. Turning a debate into a dramatic play/boxing match is a needless distraction from the issues (though admittedly more interesting to watch).

[Brian]

NON-IRONIC:

The Obama campaign store no longer sells this:



I couldn't find it on eBay searching for "Joe Biden can holder" either. Does anybody know where I can find one? I have a friend who would appreciate this very much as a birthday gift.

[Karl Henning]

Cool little piece: Top 10 Blown Calls in the 2012 Campaign.

Three of 'em: Mitt's Overseas Trip; Scott Brown Signing a "No Outside Money" Pledge;
Team Romney's Decision Not to Define the Candidate Earlier

[Mirror Image]

I hope Obama is as aggressive tonight as he was at that Town Hall debate. I want to watch Romney squirm.

[Florestan]

Interesting:

"The most important political conversation Americans need to have is about how the old conversations no longer matter. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party—called the one-and-a-half party system by former Republican Senate staffer Mike Lofgren—largely serve the same interests. The cheap drama of their respective conventions had well-trained actors reciting lines from a tired script. The Republican version claims that an overly regulatory, punitively taxing government never responsible for the slightest good is ready to install padlocks on every business door, detain every CEO, and erect shrines to Karl Marx on top the rubble of every decimated Chamber of Commerce. The Democrats counter this storybook narrative with one of their own: They champion a generous, arbiter of fairness, superhero government that will serve as America's last line of defense against a vampiric, predatory corporate world of cannibals in Brooks Brothers suits."

RTWT here

EDIT: To call US "a Gulag nation" is of course a gross exaggeration.

[Florestan]

This one too:

http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2012/10/christopher-lasch-on-presidental-debates/