21st century classical music

[San Antone]

https://www.youtube.com/v/3NdBFRd-DfI

[San Antone]

I like this one

https://www.youtube.com/v/7YetdkrQ2Tg

[chadfeldheimer]

I shouldn't call it a sore point.  I write music every week;  who is so omniscient as to presume to claim that I have nothing to say, or that everything that I have said, has been said before?  Whether it is Sean or yourself making the claim, it remains fatuous.

Well my carful phrase "maybe most things, that can be expressed musically seem to be said" already implies that I am not the omniscient listener. For example I have to admid that I did not listen to a single work from you, but nevertheless I'm still interested in and listen to a lot of recent music and my impression is not that it is bad, but that most of it is not very edge-pushing. And I have the feeling that say 40 years ago the situation was better in this regard. Today more composers seem to be oriented on the past than before. Just my impression from my limited knowledge. Is that a reason to call me a dunderhead? What is with people who don't like contemporary classical music at all?

As for the comparison with 19th century century physicists. I think they weren't that wrong, if physical experimentation you could do in your own simply home laboratory is meant. Today you have to build giant machines like the particle accelerator in Cern to do researches on the boarder to the unknown.   

[Karl Henning]

Well my carful phrase "maybe most things, that can be expressed musically seem to be said" already implies that I am not the omniscient listener.

Well, and you're already shy of pontification there.  I do not fault you for entertaining the thought.

[San Antone]

Simone Movio (b. 1978) "Incanto III" for tenor saxophone, percussion and piano; played by the Vertixe Sonora Ensemble.

https://www.youtube.com/v/oPE9OliNQUM

[chadfeldheimer]

Well, and you're already shy of pontification there.  I do not fault you for entertaining the thought.

I'm relieved to hear that!

[North Star]

As for the comparison with 19th century century physicists. I think they weren't that wrong, if physical experimentation you could do in your own simply home laboratory is meant.

No, they thought that of the science. Even the plum pudding model of the atom didn't exist before the 20th century.
And as for experiments in simple home labs - there most certainly are ones that aren't explained by 19th C physics, e.g. Brownian motion.

[chadfeldheimer]

No, they thought that of the science. Even the plum pudding model of the atom didn't exist before the 20th century.
And as for experiments in simple home labs - there most certainly are ones that aren't explained by 19th C physics, e.g. Brownian motion.

Ok, exceptions prove the rule. But wouldn't you agree that doing physical research gets increasingly harder. I have the same impression for pushing the boundaries of classical-music and even stronger of jazz- or rock-music.

[San Antone]

Ok, exceptions prove the rule. But wouldn't you agree that doing physical research gets increasingly harder. I have the same impression for pushing the boundaries of classical-music and even stronger of jazz- or rock-music.

You seem focused on the idea of "pushing the boundaries".  Why?  That idea never crosses my mind when I listen to music, new or older.

[chadfeldheimer]

You seem focused on the idea of "pushing the boundaries".  Why?  That idea never crosses my mind when I listen to music, new or older.

Yes, it is something that I appreciate. Nevertheless I like a lot of music that is not really revolutionary, Avo Pärt directly comes to my mind. Why? Don't know. The reason is hidden in my subconscious.

[North Star]

Ok, exceptions prove the rule.

And if I come up with another exception, it will be even more proof of the rule?  0:)

But wouldn't you agree that doing physical research gets increasingly harder. I have the same impression for pushing the boundaries of classical-music and even stronger of jazz- or rock-music.

Well it's true for any field that as the amount of knowledge / material increases it's harder to have a grasp of it all. It's hardly reasonable that this should mean that people shouldn't study the

[San Antone]

Yes, it is something that I appreciate. Nevertheless I like a lot of music that is not really revolutionary, Avo Pärt directly comes to my mind. Why? Don't know. The reason is hidden in my subconscious.

Your boundaries are your boundaries, no one else's.  When an artist begins his/her work s/he is obviously trying to do something that is "new" for him/her.  Whether you appreciate which boundaries s/he is pushing, is irrelevant.

[chadfeldheimer]

Well it's true for any field that as the amount of knowledge / material increases it's harder to have a grasp of it all. It's hardly reasonable that this should mean that people shouldn't study the

In physics people have no choice but going forward. In music there is the option to go back to older forms or styles, which many current composers seem to do imo. I don't want to demonize this trend. It is just personally me who would like to see more boundary pushing.

[chadfeldheimer]

Your boundaries are your boundaries, no one else's. 

Agreed.

When an artist begins his/her work s/he is obviously trying to do something that is "new" for him/her.

Hopefully

Whether you appreciate which boundaries s/he is pushing, is irrelevant.

Not for me because I'm a music enthusiast and would like to hear him/her pushing my boundaries.

[San Antone]

Not for me because I'm a music enthusiast and would like to hear him/her pushing my boundaries.

A composer need not respond to your idea of what is pushing boundaries.  Find what you like; leave the judging at the curb.

[North Star]

In physics people have no choice but going forward.

Newtonian mechanics isn't going away.

In arts, the best work is usually done by those who build on traditions, and not those who try to invent one from scratch.

[chadfeldheimer]

Find what you like; leave the judging at the curb.

Oh you do not like my point of view. However I will not follow your order to leave my judging at the curb. Critical opinions belong to every forum, if expressed in a decent way. By the way I prefer anytime a rather conservative but well written classical piece with a personal style to a poorly written boundary pusher.

[San Antone]

Enjoy your journey.  I hope you find what you are looking for.

[MishaK]

Bit of a short/late notice, but I should add in this thread for the benefit of anyone interested and within traveling distance of Chicago that there is a bit of a Spahlinger festival going on:

http://www.goethe.de/ins/us/chi/ver/en13735861v.htm

[Sean]

chadfeldheimer, a ray of light illuminates the landscape, well done. Art music has been in terminal decline since Schoenberg, as is always evident in his knowing eyes, the 20th century being one long rummaging among the ruins.

To begin with the Malteasers on the floor that spilt from the box of could be picked up easily but we haven't found any more hidden ones for a long time, and there's every chance we've got them all now.

Music doesn't compare with theoretical physics, it's just so many notes on a stave to shuffle around, and is thence inherently limited- this is obvious.

kitsune, thanks for those pointers.

Karl, sure thing. I'm only negative about the present and future though- every day I explore further the great period of recorded performance of the core repertory, roughly the middle fifty years of the last century. Enjoy the composing, there are numerous benefits...