Pollini 'Late' Beethoven: 1990 VS. 'Originals'

[snyprrr]

We need Consensus. Amazon Reviewers say 'Originals', George says 1990. What say you?

[mc ukrneal]

Interesting. I have an old Penguin Guide that says the mastering brought no great improvement, implying they are similar and that it is at least not worse! I only have the Originals and cannot hear anything wrong with them, but I don't have any other incarnations to compare against.

[Sergeant Rock]

I vote with George. But then, I only have the original CD issue (not "The Originals") so I guess my vote shouldn't count.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

Can you two meet somewhere? mm?

[Todd]

I've got the Originals version, and it is wholly satisfactory. 

[Holden]

Mine is an Originals and it sounds fine.

[snyprrr]

I can't believe no one yet is a true... what do you call them?, they had the LP, they haaad to get the first CD release, and then, because the CD sounded 'nothing' like the LP (I'm being cheeky! )they haaad to get the 'Originals',... you know the kind,... I know you're out there


I see you .


And I know you still have all three!


I'll put it this way: the older cd is CHEAPER!! ,... soooo,... if it weren't any big whoop,... but the people on Amazon seem to have quite the reaction to it. I'll wait for my prince.


...but I AM getting an itchy finger ...

[snyprrr]

Here are the Amazon Reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven--Späten-Klaviersonaten-Piano-Sonatas/product-reviews/B000001GXB/ref=sr_1_2_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I gotta say, the critics paint a fairly 'hard' picture, whilst the rabble all just fawn (but they generally don't mention the sound, or appear to be all that knowing). None but the lonely condemn the playing, and that's certainly not my concern. Those who mention the 1990 release use words such as 'almost unlistenable' and 'marred by resonant twang', phrases that make my belly feel like a fish on a deck.

The main suggestion was that the 'Originals' release wasn't all that much great of an improvement over the 1990 release, and that DG should put 10 years of audio technology to USE !!

I'll probably haaave to get the 'Originals', but, I do remember not being able to listen the great Griller performances of Bloch's SQs on Decca's re-mastering program: the sound on that was just shockingly, and for me it was shockingly harsh and just... unlistenable. I currently have no Bloch because there is no bearable alternative (Portland, no), so, I wait; but I really don't want to have to wait for DG to re-re-re-master this.

I really think we need a discussion about the state of digital: there was an interesting comment by one Reviewer saying like how hard and forceful players like Pollini didn't take well to digitization, whereas people like Arrau did. I find this all very interesting.

[snyprrr]

and

[mjwal]

I've got the original LPs - I have to admit that after quite a few playings I have never gone back, because there are so many late Beethoven sonatas out there, and my financial means are straitened...

[Sergeant Rock]

I'll put it this way: the older cd is CHEAPER!! ,... soooo,...

Here are the Amazon Reviews:
The main suggestion was that the 'Originals' release wasn't all that much great of an improvement over the 1990 release

Soooo, get the cheaper version, and use the money you saved to buy another set of late Beethoven for comparison 

Edit: You know, Snyp, fretting so obsessively over the alleged bad sound has most likely put you in a frame of mind that will make it impossible for you to be happy with Pollini in any version you choose. You won't be listening to the performance but rather to the sound. Maybe you should ask our experts (Todd, etc) which set of late sonatas combines great interpretation and playing with great sound, and go for that.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Here are the Amazon Reviews:I really think we need a discussion about the state of digital: there was an interesting comment by one Reviewer saying like how hard and forceful players like Pollini didn't take well to digitization, whereas people like Arrau did. I find this all very interesting.

Or maybe it shows the difference between Philips and DG recording teams and production philosophies. In general, to my ears anyway, Philips had the more pleasing piano sound, both in the analog era and in the early digital.

Sarge

[mc ukrneal]

Soooo, get the cheaper version, and use the money you saved to buy another set of late Beethoven for comparison 

Edit: You know, Snyp, fretting so obsessively over the alleged bad sound has most likely put you in a frame of mind that will make it impossible for you to be happy with Pollini in any version you choose. You won't be listening to the performance but rather to the sound. Maybe you should ask our experts (Todd, etc) which set of late sonatas combines great interpretation and playing with great sound, and go for that.

Sarge

Probably true. I think he either needs to get one and enjoy it OR get both so he can obsess over it all he wants! And then he can at least tell us which one he thinks he should have gotten if just one.

[North Star]

...OR get both so he can obsess over it all he wants! And then he can at least tell us which one he thinks he should have gotten if just one...

That is the GMG way!

[snyprrr]

That is the GMG way!

Aye, 'tis brutal around here, no?


It's only a few $$$ difference,... surely I would haaave to get the 'Originals',... I mean, Sarge, or anyone,... you know (I know you do) how there ARE certain recordings that make 'pleasure' difficult (Griller/Bloch on Decca for me), and how the is a whole lexicon of words dedicated to warning us about that dreadful digital 'glare', the 'hardness', 'brightly lit indeed', 'brittle',... brrr, just sends shivers up and down my spine just thinking about bad piano sound.

Sarge, of course I'm not really concerned about the performance,... I have declared that I will 'study' it no matter what, so, the sound (and tuning of the piano) are the only consideration at this stage. I have a feeling I will be able to handle it,... I'm too chicken to get the original 1990 because the Reviewers who claim to have both say how dreadful it is.

But, I certainly can't afford to do things the CDCDCD way right now. I have resigned myself to Pollini, but I demand perfect sound; HOWEVER, my idea of perfect sound is based on common sense. I do have the feeling that I can handle what I gather is a very microscopic, in-the-piano recording, with no air at all,... which, I think I can handle just fine in this case.

I would, however, also appreciate DG remastering this thing,... tap tap tap.

[North Star]

But, I certainly can't afford to do things the CDCDCD way right now. I have resigned myself to Pollini, but I demand perfect sound; HOWEVER, my idea of perfect sound is based on common sense. I do have the feeling that I can handle what I gather is a very microscopic, in-the-piano recording, with no air at all,... which, I think I can handle just fine in this case.

Then you should have no trouble with the Originals issue.

[Herman]

Here are the Amazon Reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven--Späten-Klaviersonaten-Piano-Sonatas/product-reviews/B000001GXB/ref=sr_1_2_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I gotta say, the critics paint a fairly 'hard' picture, whilst the rabble all just fawn (but they generally don't mention the sound, or appear to be all that knowing). None but the lonely condemn the playing, and that's certainly not my concern. Those who mention the 1990 release use words such as 'almost unlistenable' and 'marred by resonant twang', phrases that make my belly feel like a fish on a deck.

This 'hard' character is just the way DG used to record Pollini (you should listen to his Chopin Etudes! Hard as ice), and accordingly this characteristic doesn't change with the Originals.

Those commenters who talk about 'resonant twang' are just your usual pseudo connoisseurs fo whom the internet was made.

It's a very good recording, as close to must have as it gets.

Philips had a much more pleasing way to record piano (and strings, and pretty much everything else), but Arrau is really a whole different ballgame.
[/quote]

[snyprrr]

This 'hard' character is just the way DG used to record Pollini (you should listen to his Chopin Etudes! Hard as ice), and accordingly this characteristic doesn't change with the Originals.

Those commenters who talk about 'resonant twang' are just your usual pseudo connoisseurs fo whom the internet was made.

It's a very good recording, as close to must have as it gets.

Philips had a much more pleasing way to record piano (and strings, and pretty much everything else), but Arrau is really a whole different ballgame.

thanks. that probably seals the deal. i knew sooooooomeone around here had the answers!!

[snyprrr]

Of course , now that I waved this giant flag, the price of the 'Originals' has risen $4 on Amazon.

Typical.