Masses in Classical Era Austria

[Gurn Blanston]

Ohhh, oooohh, eternal shame on me for passing this thread by before!

Knowing your preferences, I was always surprised too. You are probably a busy man... 0:)

Only now, when I accidentaly stumbled upon Johann Michael Haydn's Requiem in C minor (not the unfinished one in B flat) I arrived at this sacred place...

I've only sampled online, but I think what anyone would strike immediately is the fact that this work must have been a major inspiration for Mozart when writing his Requiem.
Anyway, I'm looking for a good recording! And I could use some help...

Robert King's recording has been mentioned before here and it does sound like a primary recommendation: beautifully performed and recorded in the best HIP tradition, excellent singing too. But, not surprisingly from those quarters, I feel the overall sound is - probably partly due to the English choral singing - pretty smooth and lacks some grit and I would have a bit more drive.

Other options are: Zacharias (MDG), which got some positive comments but is non-HIP and to my ears rather old-fashioned and off the mark, despite some superb singing. Next is Guy Jannssen and the Laudantes consort (Cypres): I like his approach, some wonderful things going on in the orchestra but the singing is not so great, plus he is too slow - as is the same in the oddly coupled Campra Requiem, which also suffers from mediocre/bad singing... And then there is the wild horse: Ivor Bolton in a live recording with the Mozarteum Orchester (Oehms Classics - samples at jpc and HERE, which to my knowledge does not play on period instruments, but I must say it does not sound bad at al...quite good, actually.

Any comments and - hopefully - additional recommendations are most welcome! If I had to choose now, I might take my chances on Ivor Bolton, and/or for the time being go for the safe & "nice" King's Consort, which has an good coupling too, and wait for a German or mid-European ensemble to come along some day - because this music deserves much more exposure!

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Q

As it happens, the King was the first one I got and was then struck with the realization that my hunt was over after the first arrow. It is a splendid realization. I don't know from where I sit now, but the very first thing I would check out, especially with your tastes, would be to see if Pal Nemeth /Capella Savaria have done a version on Hungaroton. They are as PI as it gets, beautiful performers, and have done a great bunch of Michael Haydn. Without doubt it will be out of print (if it exists), but that can always be overcome. I can't imagine a version I would rather have, M. Haydn's music is their music.

Other than that possibility, I don't have a solid idea. I can't see me trading King for any of those you have listed. You might try King anyway; it isn't like you would be flushing a million euros if it didn't suit you. The St Ursula's Mass on Disk 2 is very fine too.

[jochanaan]

The original post (thank you, Gurn!) includes a description of 18th-century Mass music that might almost equally apply to Beethoven's Missa Solemnis.  Are we sure that one is a "concert Mass"?  Might it have in fact been written for and first performed at some special church occasion?

[Gurn Blanston]

The original post (thank you, Gurn!) includes a description of 18th-century Mass music that might almost equally apply to Beethoven's Missa Solemnis.  Are we sure that one is a "concert Mass"?  Might it have in fact been written for and first performed at some special church occasion?

Thanks for moving it TTT with such an interesting question!

AFAIK, the Missa Solemnis was composed for the installation of Beethoven's student, the Archduke Rudolph, as a Cardinal. In typical Beethoven fashion, he missed the deadline by a year or two, but in fact he did send it to Rudolph, and IIRC it was played at a Mass. In Vienna, meanwhile, when Beethoven wanted to play parts of it as his famous Academy of May 7, 1824, which also included the World Premiere of The Ninth, he couldn't do so because due to laws, Sacred Music was prohibited from being played in a secular concert stage. So he got a special dispensation to premiere the selections by calling them "Three Hymns" (rather than 3 parts of the Mass Ordinary) and in fact it was quite a popular presentation. The reaction seemed to be that these  works were  more appropriate for the concert venue.

It should be borne in mind that in the intervening years between Haydn's late masses and the Missa Solemnis, there had been a Papal decree banning that kind of music from the Mass. Not that the Austrians gave a damn, of course....

[Daverz]

Never seen that particular version of a cover in my life.  Please advise which symphonies are on it.  (Assuming you know, as the picture doesn't give it away.)

I have that Vox "wallet".  Luckily, Vox abandoned that format early on.  On the other had, I've never had one break on me.

And the music is very good.  Up there with Vanhal and the other "second tier" Classical-era symphonists.   Actually, I like Michael a little more than Vanhal.

Some of these Farberman recordings have been issued by Regis.  They even issued some recordings that were never on CD before.

[Gurn Blanston]

An Easter Mass in Salzburg Cathedral?

I was sitting in the music room this morning, listening to Beethoven's hymn to the cosmos and gazing out my window at the rabbits laying their brightly colored eggs in the various corners of the yard when the thought naturally occurred to recreate an Easter Mass from Salzburg, circa 1779.  If my library, which is well-represented with Salzburgians, would cooperate, this could be a nice Easter Sunday morning listening project.

The choice of a mass ordinary was fairly straightforward, since despite the variety out there, Mozart's Mass in C, K317 was actually (most likely) composed for Easter in Salzburg Cathedral, it would function nicely even in 2013 for that same purpose. Somewhere, somehow, this mass got the name "Coronation Mass", but in fact there is absolutely no record of it being used for any coronation of anyone at anytime, while its completion in March, 1779, and in festive C major with full orchestration makes it almost a certainty that it was used for this purpose.  It is also accompanied by the lovely Epistle Sonata K329(317a), which, with its identical (and unusual) instrumentation is clearly meant as a companion piece.

So, with only one piece out of time, the Eybler Motet for Easter "Terra Tremuit" (The Earth Trembles), which comes 10 years too late but fits too nicely to overlook, and some organ works by Muffat, trumpet fanfares by Caldara and the perfect setting for a Te Deum by Michael Haydn, we are ready to go.

The mass opens with a toccata by Muffat in the somber key of d minor (since the News hasn't got out yet!). As the Archbishop enters, we have the opening flourish of the sonata in C for 2 Clarini (high trumpets) and the violins, with timpani. Then the lovely opening strains of Mozart's Kyrie. This is undoubtedly the finest church work to ever come out of Salzburg, and the occasional bursts of symphonic writing tend to make one think of Haydn's late masses, except there isn't the fugal writing that Haydn used.

After the Gloria, Mozart's finest Epistle Sonata is played while the priest continues in silent prayer leading up to the epistle for the day. This is followed by the Credo, and then the beautiful Eybler motet "The Earth Trembles". After the gospel, the short second movement of the Caldara trumpet sonata leads into the Sanctus, the Benedictus and the Agnus Dei.  During the communion, the organist plays a Toccata & Fugue by Eberlin, yet another native son, and the mass proper closes with a "Go forth" injunction from the celebrant. At this point, since this is a festive celebratory mass, a new feature is displayed, a Te Deum. This is a classic setting of a poem of praise, believed to be by either Saint Augustine or Saint Ambrose as early as 387AD and still in use today.

Afterwards, we hear the final movement of the Caldara sonata for trumpets and then another toccata by Muffat as people file out of church, this one in a festive C major.

This sort of listening project gives one a great opportunity to hear this music in its natural progression. I personally get a good deal of satisfaction from it, because I have let it pass by for many years due to the religious implications. I have come to the decision, as you might if you are in similar philosophical circumstances, that this is too large and lovely a body of work to divorce oneself from. Historical recreations are a great way to generate the intellectual satisfaction that should go with musical enjoyment. try it and see.

[Florestan]

An Easter Mass in Salzburg Cathedral?
[...]

Excellent idea, splendid realization. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Excellent idea, splendid realization. 

Thanks, Florestan. In the event, it was highly enjoyable.

[Florestan]

Thanks, Florestan. In the event, it was highly enjoyable.

Imagine how magnificent an experience would be to really see and hear that Mass in the Salzburg cathedral. The mere thought of it gives me goosebumps. (It goes without saying that the liturgical Mass should be Tridentine, not Concillar).

[Gurn Blanston]

Imagine how magnificent an experience would be to really see and hear that Mass in the Salzburg cathedral. The mere thought of it gives me goosebumps.

I know that until WWII at least, they still did masses in the old style there. I wonder if they still do today, since Vatican II.  I would guess not. Still the historical aspect; this is where Mozart and Michael Haydn played the organ on Sundays etc. would be enough of a point of interest to make the trip well worthwhile. 

[Florestan]

I know that until WWII at least, they still did masses in the old style there. I wonder if they still do today, since Vatican II.  I would guess not. Still the historical aspect; this is where Mozart and Michael Haydn played the organ on Sundays etc. would be enough of a point of interest to make the trip well worthwhile. 

I visited Salzburg 20 years ago but I was there only one day. I hope next time I'll stay longer and maybe catch a historical Mass being enacted. 

[kishnevi]

From the liner notes to the Philips set of Mozart's masses (meaning from the Complete Mozart Edition, Volume 10 of its 2000 incarnation), by Kenneth Chalmers:
after explaining that K.317 and K.337 were written for Easter, and the probable link to K.329

The "Coronation" nickname of the Mass seems to derive from its performance under the Viennese court composer of the day, Salieri, possibly during the coronation of Leopold II in Frankfurt in 1790 or (as King of Bohemia) in Prague in 1791, the event for which Mozart wrote La Clemenza di Tito.

I have heard, in contrast to this, that the mass's name stems from its use in Marian context, for a ritual coronation of the Virgin's statue in a church whose location I've forgotten--may not have been Salzburg.

Meanwhile,  you've given me a good idea of what to listen to later on, after the current batch of Russian symphonies has been digested.

[Gurn Blanston]

From the liner notes to the Philips set of Mozart's masses (meaning from the Complete Mozart Edition, Volume 10 of its 2000 incarnation), by Kenneth Chalmers:
after explaining that K.317 and K.337 were written for Easter, and the probable link to K.329
I have heard, in contrast to this, that the mass's name stems from its use in Marian context, for a ritual coronation of the Virgin's statue in a church whose location I've forgotten--may not have been Salzburg.

Meanwhile,  you've given me a good idea of what to listen to later on, after the current batch of Russian symphonies has been digested.

Interesting, thanks for that. Zaslaw doesn't mention the Leopold II connection, and although I remember Salieri leading a pair of Mozart masses there, I couldn't remember which they were. The Marian connection has to do with an anniversary of the coronation of a miracle working statue of Mary at the church of Maria Plain, a pilgrimage destination near Salzburg.  There was never any documentation of this connection, however. The completion date on the autograph of "March 23, 1779" lends a lot of credence to the Easter idea, given that Mozart habitually didn't complete anything until it as needed.

[kishnevi]

given that Mozart habitually didn't complete anything until it as needed.

And in some cases, only after it was needed! 

Chamlers is definite that the Masses were written for Eastertide Salzburg; the Salieri performances are given as less definite and would have been revivals of the music, not first performances.

[Gurn Blanston]

And in some cases, only after it was needed! 

Chamlers is definite that the Masses were written for Eastertide Salzburg; the Salieri performances are given as less definite and would have been revivals of the music, not first performances.

  Many examples of that, for sure!

Yes, I was going to make that point myself; the mass was already 11 or 12 years old by then. Another reason I hate hanging names on musical works...

[Coopmv]

Looks like there will be a bit of catch-up reading for me on this thread.  Other than a few Haydn Masses, I am really not familiar with other works in this classical sub-genre.  As I went through the pretty large liner-note of the following set of SMP by Karajan a few days ago, it appears the work was not even familiar to the Austrian themselves (back in the early 1950's), who share the same language with the Germans ...

[Gurn Blanston]

Hi, Coop. Enjoy your stay here. I suspect that you will discover an entirely different sort of music between Austria and Germany. And also will have to arrive at different terms with what you consider to be 'sacred music', because the Austrians certainly did! In the period between 1730 and 1830, the likelihood of hearing anything resembling your Bach, for example, is right out. Of course, this was the period when stile Antico, which Bach represented so well, was in high disfavor in Austria (and other places too, I might add). Which is not to say that sacred music was any less respected, it just was done differently.

You might like to try some of Mozart's masses, not the few he did after moving to Vienna, but the Salzburg masses from the 1770's. And of course, Michael Haydn, the premiere composer of masses at the time. The further away you go from the Vienna / Salzburg axis, the less the music you find will represent this style. That's why I've tried to keep the focus here, because if you just say 'mass music' the range is phenomenal!!  Which is and of itself is another great topic for a thread  (hint hint, in case anyone wants to do that!!).

Enjoy!

[Gurn Blanston]

New disk finally shipped today, although I have been trying for nearly a year to snap up a copy;

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Michael Haydn's famous Oboe Mass, which was praised to the heavens by Leopold Mozart in a letter to Wolfgang. Stunning as that is, I think in retrospect that this is the only positive thing that Leopold ever wrote!!

I have the mass itself by others, but this is the disk to have, not least because it is the only one containing the original through-composed offertory "Timete Dominum". I have begun an essay on this fascinating mass which will proceed apace when once I get this disk. If you can't find a copy of this one, I would point out that there is one by Raymond Hug that is very nice too, one which I already have. This is a mass that I would really enjoy discussing with anyone interested.

[Wakefield]

New disk finally shipped today, although I have been trying for nearly a year to snap up a copy;

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... which was praised to the heavens by Leopold Mozart in a letter to Wolfgang. Stunning as that is, I think in retrospect that this is the only positive thing that Leopold ever wrote!!

I think you're being unfair, he also wrote another "positive things": 

Exempli gratia:

[Gurn Blanston]

I think you're being unfair, he also wrote another "positive things": 

Exempli gratia:

  Well, I wasn't thinking about 'composing', rather, discussing someone else's music. He was a bundle of negativity.

[Wakefield]

  Well, I wasn't thinking about 'composing', rather, discussing someone else's music. He was a bundle of negativity.

I know, I know. Your post was very clear. 

I simply took the chance to promote that excellent set.