Mystery Orchestra 18 - Schumann Symphony No.4 - one more

[M forever]

But La Mer is one of my favorite pieces!

[PerfectWagnerite]

My mind is too simple for La Mer. Something that I can't sense a beat or I can't follow the harmony I have trouble dealing with. But I'd still listen to the clips though.

[Greta]

Or maybe some Sibelius. Or maybe not.

Sibelius would be interesting.

[Sean]

Or maybe we can do Symphonie Fantastique of Schubert's "Great" C-major, something that tax an orchestra a little bit.

I'm not listening to that!

[M forever]

Like we care, Sean, like hell we care!

Greta's wish is my command, so I am already looking through my Sibelius recordings.

[rubio]

This was an interesting exercise as I have hardly listened to this work before. So at least I have not imprinted on any performance.

Clip A: When I listened to this first clip I found that I liked certain passages a lot like the start, and the more energetic episodes like around 4:20 and 5:50. It is a nice performance, even if it slightly rushed for my taste. It could be Harnoncourt.

Clip B: This was definately something else (for me that is, of course)  ! The grandeur of this slower, more bottom-heavy performance makes me feel this is a really great work. There are some massive brass playing from time to time leading me to think this could be Sawallisch/Staatskapelle Dresden. I also like the playing of the woodwinds (well, I generally love woodwinds). It's maybe not a very detailed woodwind sound, but lovely nonetheless.

Clip C: This one I like a lot too. It seems like a very good recording. I hear a lot of detail; especially the woodwinds are haunting. I have heard a bit of the Schumann 1 with Barenboim, and this reminds me about that crisp performance. So I guess this is Barenboim/Staatskapelle Berlin.

Clip D: A very fast performance, and I miss some depth and bass prominence in this one. I like the woodwind here as well. I have no clue who this could be. I imagine that I could like this type of approach more when my knowledge about the work has increased.

Clip E: This take is broad and it has the beautiful sound of the orchestra that reminds me of Karajan/BPO. I miss some more attack here and there, and maybe a darker sound palette.

Clip F: This clip seems to have a mix of the qualities of clip B and C, but lacking the level of detail of clip C and the brass playing of clip B. I have no idea about who this could be either.

I'm sure that I will purchase Clip B and C when they are revealed (if I don't have them already...). I liked them both a lot.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I'm not listening to that!

Why not? Two of the cornerstones of the repertoire and deservingly so!

Greta's wish is my command, so I am already looking through my Sibelius recordings.

Oh now that you find out she has movie-star good looks she can ask you to jump and you'll ask how high right  Not that I wouldn't do the same...

[Larry Rinkel]

I'm not listening to that!

Then let's have the Symphonie Fantastique!

BTW, I downloaded and listened to 18E and F, but I think I'll wait a day to comment as I was a bit too sated by the piece to take careful notes. (I heard it all the way through in two interpretations today as well.) So I should have something to say by Saturday.

[MishaK]

Then let's have the Symphonie Fantastique!

I'm calling that one! I will upload a few clips of Op.14 in due course, my friend.

[M forever]

Then let's have the Symphonie Fantastique!

I know that sounds like an automatic choice under these circumstances, when Sean says he won't listen to it, but like I said, this is a piece I am myself rather tired of. I have a few recordings, but right now, I can't even think of most of them because I rarely ever listen to the piece. Not that I don't think it isn't good. There were times when I also enjoyed it a lot. But right now, I hardly ever find myself in a "fantastique" mood. I haven't decided yet which Sibelius, but he will be featured in the next round.

[Greta]

A - Very nice performance, seems a flexible, agile orchestra. Lean sound quality, full size but clean textures, the interpretation is in keeping with the time, maybe there are some period instruments thrown in. Pretty straightforward this interpretation is. I hear again that delicate fluty sound quality that I love in the winds and strings. But maybe this also Schumann's marvelous writing. Isn't it terribly hard for string players to play that fast in the 5th minute, tremolos on every note? Graceful, beautifully recorded performance but energetic too. British maybe, a hybrid period thing? I don't know who. Maybe Mackerras recorded this.

C - Darker sounds here, large orchestra. Maybe a great European orchestra. This one I don't connect with so much, it feels kind of paint-by-the-numbers. Played well, but I feel the conductor doesn't give it that extra oomph and sparkle. I hear the timpani, with that nice period sound. But otherwise, basically modern performance. He sees the long lines which is nice, but it also runs things together somewhat. Really didn't do much with the end. Wonderful orchestra, but the conducting is boring to me.

[Larry Rinkel]

Both E and F take longer by the clock than the others, both around 11:30, but I find F the more compelling of the two. The intro to E started off well, with forceful timpani and a real sense of sostenuto, but the stringendo to the Lebhaft starts too soon, and the tempo feels too deliberate. Plodding, in fact, to my ears, though the conductor here and there in the development seems to have sensed things were going too slowly and occasionally presses forward. But the result is rather unsettled and unsettling to my mind.

F is better, though the intro is recorded at a generally lower dynamic. But he (or she, must be PC here) holds back more, reaching the Lebhaft at 2:23 in contrast to E's 1:56, even though they finish together. F makes big fermatas, and a big decrescendo before the two appearances of the lyric theme. And though he takes a Piu mosso around 10:10, he also returns to a slightly slower tempo for the coda at 10:42. The last chord is big; you really hear those strings doing their quadruple stops. You can see just from the WAV form that he holds back on the intro to finish big. I'm not sure this version is identical to one I have and like that also takes about 11:30, but the wave forms are similar and I wouldn't be surprised if they're by the same conductor; therefore my guess is Muti. My third wave form is from the Muti/Philharmonia/EMI, who achieves a really stately grandeur in the piece that I like very much.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Oh come on Larry, now we are going to signal processing to find the mystery orchestra ?

[Larry Rinkel]

Oh come on Larry, now we are going to signal processing to find the mystery orchestra ?

Whatever works . . . . 

[M forever]

An interesting and original cheating technique! In this case, it actually worked 
But I guess that only works with someone who is as controlled and consistent as Muti.

But not only this, many other guesses and analyses were really very close or spot on. And some were very off. That's the nature of the game.
In any case, as always, I don't give or subtract points. You can all do that yourselves.

But many of the reviews were very interesting to read, very perceptive, and a lot of good points and precise observations were made in this thread.

These are the Mystery Performers which took part in this round:



MO18 A

Gewandhausorchester Leipzig
Riccardo Chailly



Recorded in 2006 by Decca

And yes, it's the version reorchestrated by Mahler.



MO18 B

Staatskapelle Dresden
Herbert von Karajan



Recorded live in 1972 by the ORF and released by DG

This concert in Salzburg was one of the (unfortunately) only 3 times Karajan conducted the SD in concert. EMI made a highly successful recording of "Die Meistersinger" with him in Dresden and also wanted to record all the Brahms symphonies, and Karajan wanted the orchestra to come to Salzburg more often, but East-West political BS made all that too complicated.



MO17 C

Staatskapelle Dresden
Wolfgang Sawallisch



From the complete cycle recorded, by EMI in 1972

The interesting thing here is that the Karajan and Sawallisch performances were recorded less than 1 month apart by the same orchestra, but with different conductors and in different venues.



MO18 D

Tonhalle-Orchester Zürich
David Zinman



From the complete cycle, recorded by Arte Nova in 2003



MO18 E

Staatskapelle Dresden
Giuseppe Sinopoli



From the complete cycle, recorded by DG in 1993



MO18 F

Wiener Philharmoniker
Riccardo Muti



From the complete cycle, recorded by Philips in 1993



Sorry about all the Dresden clips! I try to be more diverse normally, but the SD totally owns the repertoire. Well, not *totally*.

[rubio]

MO18 B

Staatskapelle Dresden
Herbert von Karajan



Recorded live in 1972 by the ORF and released by DG

This concert in Salzburg was one of the (unfortunately) only 3 times Karajan conducted the SD in concert. EMI made a highly successful recording of "Die Meistersinger" with him in Dresden and also wanted to record all the Brahms symphonies, and Karajan wanted the orchestra to come to Salzburg more often, but East-West political BS made all that too complicated.

Does this performance exist on CD? How does it compare to his other Schumann 4 recordings. I haven't heard any so far.

[Sean]

Not so well I thought! It fooled me anyway: M might know when the BPO set dates from but I don't think K is quite at his best here.

[Drasko]

Wow, I was so off on C  

I'll stick with what I said, A has gone on my shopping list ans so would B but seems out of print.

Unfortunately had virtually no listening time to go over E and F these last few days.

Question: does Zinman use period horns? That whole performance sounded HIP but they made me think more valve for some reason.

[M forever]

Yes, the performance was on CD at one time (or did you think I photoshopped the cover myself, with the SG logo and all that). But it is OOP an very rare now.

Not so well I thought! It fooled me anyway: M might know when the BPO set dates from but I don't think K is quite at his best here.

I think he is at his extramegaspecialultrabest here. Live, "unbottened", "unpolished", extremely flexible and spontaneous, "taking risks", leting the orchestra play freely but at the same time his long line control and natural impluse giving is also feelable. This comes very close to his ideal of music just happening somehow, flowing naturally, propelled forward by its own inner energy rather than played along the barlines. It is very understandable from this recording why he was so interested in working with the orchestra because it has that rare inner life of its own, a musical organism rather than a bunch of people executing black dots on paper.

[Greta]

I didn't listen to E and F yet...all the clips were very, very good, but Sawallisch didn't work as well for me here. It seemed like something was lacking, an extra zing. A and B both so beautiful, I'd been eyeing that Chailly anyway just because they were reorchestrated by Mahler, nice to know they are really superb performances.

Special nod to Zinman with D. I was amazed when I finally read all the other comments and saw how "on" most everyone was! Many people got them mostly all right.

Apparently I'm a HIPster and didn't even know it thanks to these games. Now I have to start visiting the HIP threads more! I loved the Zinman, the energy, the clean textures, what a nice surprise. Does Tonhalle do HIP often, is Zinman a HIP specialist? Or does that one classify as hybrid HIP?