If only we didn't call it "Obama-Care" . . . .

[Karl Henning]

Republicans support Obama's health reforms — as long as his name isn't on them

[Gurn Blanston]

It will continue to be called that until it suddenly becomes a success, when it can be renamed "Boehner-Care" or whoever is in office at the time. As long as they are white, of course, and several reputable (white) people were actually in the delivery room when they first saw the light of day... 

[kishnevi]

Republicans support Obama's health reforms — as long as his name isn't on them

Well, they ought to, since almost everything in the bill originated in Republican/conservative circles.

Now of course the same people who thought up those ideas are the first to call it reckless tyranny, and a clever plot to destroy the health insurance industry because it won't work, and we will then have to adopt single payer insurance along the lines of NHS.  Apparetnly BHO and his fellow jihadist Bolsheviks are a truly sneaky group of people.

[Geo Dude]

Well, they ought to, since almost everything in the bill originated in Republican/conservative circles.

Now of course the same people who thought up those ideas are the first to call it reckless tyranny, and a clever plot to destroy the health insurance industry because it won't work, and we will then have to adopt single payer insurance along the lines of NHS.  Apparetnly BHO and his fellow jihadist Bolsheviks are a truly sneaky group of people.

Thinking of how Republicans would react if Obama came up with the PATRIOT act is a fun thought experiment.

[snyprrr]

It is obvious that Obama is...mm...'worse' than Bush. At least Bush acted stupid. Congress is beholden to Goldman Sachs. No one cares about my health, ha, this whole thing is a sick joke. People used to die every now and then, but, oh no, now we have to keep everyone 'alive' no matter what.

I'm not payin' for the fatties!!

You sick people who live these lifestyles, and eat this garbage,... I'm not bailing you out. You sick insurence companies, and doctors who seem to know nothing but prescribe prescribe prescribe,... oh no, we don't work for Universal Pharma.

Oh yea, let's make sure EVERYONE gets psychotropics now. Yea, you'd have to be 'insane' to be against universal healthcare, oh, what, are you... gasp... a republican?? oh no, they're on our side,... you must be a racist, or a terrorist, or... an antisemite... oh no!... you're not for Government Mandated HealthCare,... oh, we must liposuction the nation,... and all the rich people should get their plastic surgery for free (Nancy Pelosi!),...

oh yes, I'm just a heathen


go ahead, kill as many fetuses as you want then, just leave me out of it. Stay out of MY PRIVATE DOMAIN!!

You all realize we're heading for a Bonhoffer Moment???

Mandated Sterilization

Bush + Obama = business as usual since 1991!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ugh, this fake 'partisanship' BS is nauseating, and anyone falling for it is... what?... willingly ignorant??


Why are we debating gays and bammycare when Dimon & Co. still walk??


LET THE BANKS PAY FOR HEALTHCARE FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!

PFFFFFT!!!

spit spit spit


soon the real bill is gonna be due,... and we're debating 'universal' (giggle... yea, no pun intended) healthcare... oh yea, and don't forget everyone's minority of the hour issue... 800,000 brand spanking new job seeker, oh boy howdy I just can't wait to give these Perfect Human Beings my life since they are so much Greater People than I could ever hope to be,... I'm just a Second Class US Citizen,... not like these Chosen Ones, these Golden Victims of History,...

Israel called latinos, they want their victim crown back.


uh, disgusted am i

[drogulus]

Well, they ought to, since almost everything in the bill originated in Republican/conservative circles.

     Yes, and the hated individual mandate was stolen from the Heritage Foundation.

     Obama should be given a medal by conservatives for trying (one last time, pleeze!) to save for-profit medicine from its own greedy instincts. How do conservatives get this so wrong? If you don't want socialism you have to improve capitalism. Obama is trying to keep one sixth of the economy in private hands by making it serve the interests of the people it's supposed to serve. If he fails single payer is the only option left.

     You know what they say, America always does the right thing after trying everything else.

[snyprrr]

     Yes, and the hated individual mandate was stolen from the Heritage Foundation.

     Obama should be given a medal by conservatives for trying (one last time, pleeze!) to save for-profit medicine from its own greedy instincts. How do conservatives get this so wrong? If you don't want socialism you have to improve capitalism. Obama is trying to keep one sixth of the economy in private hands by making it serve the interests of the people it's supposed to serve. If he fails single payer is the only option left.

     You know what they say, America always does the right thing after trying everything else.

By design? Hegelian...

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

You can all be thankful not to live in über protective insurance-europe I pay 340 EUR/month for healthcare. But c'mon, healthcare... one of the few things where I think which must be paid by the community, because simply you cannot financially afford many health problems.

In Nordrhein-Westfalen (highest populated province in western Germany) the green party got voted again and they will start a second try for forcing every homeowner to prophylactically check wastewater pipes of the house. It's about keeping the groundwater clean, "future of our kids"  blahblah... I know friends of mine let it check with a camera: price ~300 EUR which is a typical price I think. But if they find holes in your pipes, or if pipes are not completely connected any more, they will force you to fix it. My friends did it. Costs: EUR 5000. Ground had to be opened, craftsmen prices are between EUR 50 and EUR 100 typically...

And what is it good for? In my house, water runs down maybe 5 Minutes a day. If there was a hole, only a part of it sinks into ground. And what is it? Shower water, water from cleaning dishes.

Is THAT worth it? Our neighbor provinces said NO. But we have a green party, which sucks. We will probably be forced to do this between 2015 (older houses) and 2020 (newer). I will wait, governments change...

Would such a law be possible in the US?
[/whining mode off]

[kishnevi]

Would such a law be possible in the US?
[/whining mode off]

In some locations, probably it would be.  But it would probably be done at the city/town level (or the county level--I'm not sure if American counties have an equivalent in European terms:  midway between state and city/town but also including geographic areas that are not incorporated into an existing city/town--like but unlike English counties (shires)--and not the state level, and probably be worked so that you wouldn't need to do it until you did serious plumbing or other renovation work, or sold your house.

[mc ukrneal]

In some locations, probably it would be.  But it would probably be done at the city/town level (or the county level--I'm not sure if American counties have an equivalent in European terms:  midway between state and city/town but also including geographic areas that are not incorporated into an existing city/town--like but unlike English counties (shires)--and not the state level, and probably be worked so that you wouldn't need to do it until you did serious plumbing or other renovation work, or sold your house.

It will probably also depend on what kind of system you have. Some will have sewers, cess pools, septic tanks, natural wells, etc. I think the age of the system (some of Europe has really old infrastructure) may be playing a big role as well. But I think the biggest impact is chemicals and such where you live or even something as simple as salt. I would think that limiting these would have a bigger impact.

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

It will probably also depend on what kind of system you have. Some will have sewers, cess pools, septic tanks, natural wells, etc. I think the age of the system (some of Europe has really old infrastructure) may be playing a big role as well. But I think the biggest impact is chemicals and such where you live or even something as simple as salt. I would think that limiting these would have a bigger impact.

It's all independent from age of private homes here (except, the time limits, as mentioned) - everybody has to have his houses pipes (from where it comes out of the house to the public connection) checked... An argument of the Pro's is: you throw your pills into the toilet... NO, I DON'T.

In my opinion it's a complete waste of the peoples money and all in all making us less competetive. We have too many politicians not knowing how to earn money (teachers, clerks, officials), but how to spend it. Too many leftist parties with a sack full of presents, not their business who earns that money.

Ugh, and this year they'll disallow smoking in every pub and social buildings and playgrounds, without any exception. But I heard even in the "land of the free" it's the case (Florida?). Our green party simply is bourgeois and having fun in forbidding things to others. And we have "Die Linke" - their consensus seems to be: Everything should be state property. Everybody who earned money, must have stolen it from his employees. They suck as well. Oh, I'm complaining again 

[kishnevi]

In my opinion it's a complete waste of the peoples money and all in all making us less competetive. We have too many politicians not knowing how to earn money (teachers, clerks, officials), but how to spend it. Too many leftist parties with a sack full of presents, not their business who earns that money.

Ugh, and this year they'll disallow smoking in every pub and social buildings and playgrounds, without any exception. But I heard even in the "land of the free" it's the case (Florida?). Our green party simply is bourgeois and having fun in forbidding things to others. And we have "Die Linke" - their consensus seems to be: Everything should be state property. Everybody who earned money, must have stolen it from his employees. They suck as well. Oh, I'm complaining again 

You don't know how much like a Republican you sound in writing that,  Tapio.  What you write there could be found almost any day in political blogs belonging to the conservative side here in the US.

I'm a libertarian, so while I tend to think the Republican apparatus is simply another hypocritical set of politicians, I tend to agree with most of what you say there.  And being a sensible person who doesn't like clogged up toilets, I throw out my outdated pills into the wastebasket.

And in Florida at least (that's where I live) smoking is forbidden not only in all those places but also all work places, including private offices.

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

You don't know how much like a Republican you sound in writing that,  Tapio.  What you write there could be found almost any day in political blogs belonging to the conservative side here in the US.

I know, but I'm also sure, even as a die-hard demecrat american in Germany, you'd cry loud and want to escape to the US again, because of latent "communism" (Communism typically is the wrong word). In my opinion, we have a very distinct Zeitgeist which can be summed up in a simple sentence: "I am not responsible for what I am. Everybody else/the others/the state/the community/the collective is". Just one example is the education, child care, and food. It's generally expected to have kids at school the full day and giving them best meals. Parents are not expected to care for their kids. If something really goes wrong in families (say, a murder) - the only question is: what did the community do wrong, why did the state fail etc...

More "you are responsible for yourself"! Even if it's completely outdated here.

[Kontrapunctus]

It will continue to be called that until it suddenly becomes a success, when it can be renamed "Boehner-Care"

That sounds like the result of a bad reaction to Cialis or Viagra! 

[Gurn Blanston]

That sounds like the result of a bad reaction to Cialis or Viagra! 

  I swear to god this is true; on the morning after the 2010 mid-term elections, when Nancy Pelosi lost her job as House Speaker, I was watching CNN news while eating breakfast and the announcer began talking about the new House regime under new Speaker John Boner. I damned near choked.

[snyprrr]

EPIC FACEPALM





Welcome to the United Socialist States of Amerika.

Look in your pockets. Feel any green paper? You will, in the future, surely remember what that feels like.

[Todd]

Hmm, SCOTUS didn't ax the individual mandate.  Looks like some legal scholars, and prognosticators everywhere, erred.  Conservatives seemed certain, and happy, that the Court would kill it; Liberals seemed certain, and sullen, of same.  Oops. 

Maybe this will spice up the election campaigns some.

[kishnevi]

Hmm, SCOTUS didn't ax the individual mandate.  Looks like some legal scholars, and prognosticators everywhere, erred.  Conservatives seemed certain, and happy, that the Court would kill it; Liberals seemed certain, and sullen, of same.  Oops. 

Maybe this will spice up the election campaigns some.

Actually, they screwed it up completely.  Only SCOTUS can turn an utter mess into complete chaos. 

Apparently, they ruled the mandate would be unconstitutional if it was a mandate, but that the mandate in question was not really a mandate, but a tax that couldn't be enforced.    So even though it walks like a mandate and quacks like a mandate, it really isn't a mandate.

Or something.

Oh, and on the Medicaid part, you can now expect poor people in blue states to get coverage and poor people in red states to not get coverage.

[Todd]

Actually, they screwed it up completely.  Only SCOTUS can turn an utter mess into complete chaos. 

Perhaps, but it is chaos that can be managed legislatively now.

It is my understanding that the Court ruled the penalty for not purchasing insurance a tax, and therefore permissible.  (Ginsburg's side opinion still supporting the Commerce Clause is less compelling to me.)  It is still possible to not purchase insurance and simply pay the tax.  It could possibly make economic sense for some people to do this (eg, the young, healthy, and indestructible), depending on the relative cost of insurance versus the penalty.  It is really no different from companies purposely not complying with this or that regulation and knowingly paying a fine (ie, tax) instead.  I've worked for employers that do this.

I'm less worried about the Medicaid portion of the decision as that seems to basically be about funding, and some types of compromises will be available through normal politics, however ugly. 

Now perhaps Congress and the next President can work on fixing and enforcing some elements of Obamacare.  For instance, the vaunted continued coverage of people up to age 26 under their parents' plans is awful.  My wife works on the administrative side of health care and routinely sees people in their early 20s with two and three policies covering them.  (Being covered by up to four policies is easy under the law; more may be possible.)  This is no way to contain systemic costs.  I suppose I could view my wife's experience as anecdotal and of limited value, but she works for a huge HMO; her experience is not isolated.  Also, more pressure on electronic medical records needs to be applied.  The resistance on this front is appalling.  Perhaps the medical devices tax could be revisited, too.  No, it should be revisited. 

[drogulus]

     This country leads the world in health care administration. Overhead in the mostly private system is far higher than in the VA and Medicare systems. If we could somehow get everyone into these systems we'd have more money for care and coverage.