Blind Comparison: Mahler Symphony no.1

[Brian]

How long do you think you would want, Brian?

Although the Debussy competition suggests that I will agree with every one of mc ukrneal's rankings, I thought about my plans for the day and all I've got going on is some quality reading time, a couple loads of laundry, and the impending cooking of mushroom fontina quesadillas. So... bombs away! *starts downloading B1 and A8*

It's now 7:45 for you, right? So I most certainly can't be ready today simply by logic of how much time remains. I don't actually know what deadline you've set now...?

[Sergeant Rock]

The choices so far:

DavidRoss  Beale  TimH   Sarge  Zauberflöte Trung224  mc urkneal

      C5          C5      B8      C8         C5                B1            C8
      B8          B8      A8      C5          B1               C8             B8
      A8          A8      C8      B1          C8               C5             C5
      B1          B1      C5      B8          A8               A8              A8
      C8          C8      B1      A8          B8               B8              B1

[Sergeant Rock]

So... bombs away! *starts downloading B1 and A8*

Go Brian!

Sarge

[Brian]

the impending cooking of mushroom fontina quesadillas

Oh, man, the first one's an easy 8.5. Choosing red onions over white was inspired, but I want to look at my fledgling spice rack and see if there's something to kick the second one up a notch.

Anyway, B1 downloaded first so here goes nothing! Mahler symphony shotgunning begins now! Sarge, if young Daniel doesn't know what that idiom means*, you're in charge of either explaining it or finding that wonderful scene from The Sure Thing where John Cusack teaches Daphne Zuniga how it's done.


*to be fair, I joined GMG at around age 16

[mc ukrneal]

The choices so far:

DavidRoss  Beale  TimH   Sarge  Zauberflöte Trung224  mc urkneal

      C5          C5      B8      C8         C5                B1            C8
      B8          B8      A8      C5          B1               C8             B8
      A8          A8      C8      B1          C8               C5             C5
      B1          B1      C5      B8          A8               A8              A8
      C8          C8      B1      A8          B8               B8              B1

Are Beale and DavidRoss the same person!?!?!? Holy cow!

[Sergeant Rock]

Are Beale and DavidRoss the same person!?!?!? Holy cow!

Probably not, but they've obviously had a mind meld 

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Anyway, B1 downloaded first so here goes nothing! Mahler symphony shotgunning begins now! Sarge, if young Daniel doesn't know what that idiom means*, you're in charge of either explaining it or finding that wonderful scene from The Sure Thing where John Cusack teaches Daphne Zuniga how it's done.

Okay 

When you get to C8, make sure you download the corrected file that Daniel sent later.

Sarge

[madaboutmahler]

Thank you very much for your vote, Neal! Very interesting to read, thank you for sharing your thoughts in such detail! So, may I ask, do you like the piece now?

Brian, haha Brilliant! Take your time, don't worry. We can extend the voting deadline to tommorow evening if you wish? Hope you enjoy it!!

[DavidRoss]

Probably not, but they've obviously had a mind meld 

Hey, can I help it if Beale just has impeccable taste?

[mc ukrneal]

Thank you very much for your vote, Neal! Very interesting to read, thank you for sharing your thoughts in such detail! So, may I ask, do you like the piece now?

Well, it will probably never be my favorite, but shear repetition has helped me to better learn and appreciate the piece (not to mention comments here). I think the top 2 were interesting enough for me to potentially get one of them.

[madaboutmahler]

Very glad to hear that, Neal!

[Brian]

Brian, haha Brilliant! Take your time, don't worry. We can extend the voting deadline to tommorow evening if you wish? Hope you enjoy it!!

'Twould be nice! After a bit of laundry and shopping, starting #2 now!

[xochitl]

so i have 2 to go and cant start until 4 hours from now

am i still in?

[madaboutmahler]

'Twould be nice! After a bit of laundry and shopping, starting #2 now!

so i have 2 to go and cant start until 4 hours from now

am i still in?

Ok then, the new deadline is this time tommorow. (24 more hours)
Enjoy!

By the way, I remember some people earlier in the thread talking about possibly setting up new blind comparisons. If you are planning to, could you possibly PM me, so I can work out how to organize the next Mahler comparison. (to be revealed soon!! )

[Lisztianwagner]

I'm deeply sorry I wasn't able to post my votes and comments, but if I can have a little extra time I'll do it not later than tomorrow evening.

Ok then, the new deadline is this time tommorow. (24 more hours)

Ah, excellent!

[jwinter]

Hi guys!  FYI, I'm afraid I'm going to have to skip the last round.  I've recently started a new job, and my listening time has taken a considerable hit.  I'll be looking forward to the results!

Cheers,
jwinter

[Brian]

That's okay, jwinter! I started a new job last week too... and not everyone is stupid enough to try to listen to all five finalists in a single night 

It's time for the cooking-dinner break, but with three down and C5/C8 to go, I honestly do need an aural palate cleanser. Tempted to find a full-length standup comedy set on YouTube and play that while cooking.

[Brian]

A8: I did not hear this in either earlier round.
I. Opening has me a bit worried. Not especially mysterious, not especially atmospheric, off-key violins at times. The movement proper moves right along, but it's a little too heavy-set to be as graceful or evocative as B1. Oh, man, the flute at 11' is so good!! As tart as the strings can sometimes be, these are fantastic wind solos. Okay, everything from 11' on is stupendous, actually - doesn't hit the breaks before the coda, still brings it off wonderfully.
II. The scherzo goes well but oh no, no, the trio won't do at all - there's no schmaltz here. It's far too plainspoken.
III. Good; not as good as B1, but good. I like Neal's word: a bit "static" in its slowness. The lied has some sweetness, but not altogether as much.
IV. I enjoy how they handle the second subject, but the conductor does like the loud bits most, as evidenced by his skill with the "fake" climax - I call it that because it feels like victory but then fades away into quiet. In the coda, the violins are a bit runty at first and then everything becomes All Brass, All the Time! This judge says 7.4 out of 10; final ranking fourth.

B1: In the first round, I ranked this #1 and called it "very good but not special."
I. I find this first movement charming and sweet; the introduction is good enough, not especially mysterious, and when the cellos first enter with the tune I worried about their lack of grace, but from then on we had a gloriously long stretch of golden, somewhat nostalgically pretty playing. The intro's reprise feels reeeeeally slow. There will be better horns at 14:30 in C8, I know.
II. I like the very beginning, how the tempo lurches weirdly forward after a bar or two. However, I don't think this works on the reprises; surprise is gone. Did I fault this for being too fast in an earlier round?
III. Did I hear a cough, so this is live? Wow, love the first few minutes - near ideal! Like the trumpets too, though recessed percussion less. Oooh the violins! but just a hair too quick. The central lied is perfection, my god, I want to hug it. Yeah this funeral march is close to my ideal.
IV. Hmm slightly lazy phrasing of finale's main theme by the brass. By 37:20 I'm really worn out - this is a wild ride, with lots of tempo changes and truly demonic playing, so the huge slowdown is kind of welcome as a relief. At 44', the "fake" climax doesn't feel convincing enough, doesn't feel like a true ending. So it's not as tricky as it could be. Slow to the breaking point at 48:30, though it does feel very calming. 49:00-49:20 superb. I'll buy the wild changes in tempo here: this feels like a true epic, a battle fought hard and won deservedly, enough to momentarily make me forget qualms about the first half. One final thought: I have absolutely no way of judging the conductor or orchestra here; nothing suggested a particular style or region to me the way that, previously, Czech or Russian readings seemed obvious. This judge says 8.7 out of 10; final ranking second.

B8: In the first round I ranked this halfway through the pack (#4) and said it was "competent...emotionally cool."
I. Feels very smoothed over, gentle, ginger, and although there is at least one place with original phrasing, my impression is of competence, intelligence, but nothing especially exciting. Good mellow horns in the intro, though. I see this performance has been ranked 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th by various voters! Wow, the timpani at the end are piledrivers, though the rest of the orchestral playing in the coda is far, far less dramatic and exciting than in C8.
II. Only marginally better than A8 at bringing out the schmaltz in the trio (it gets better over time). I think this must be the "very competent but unexceptional" performance in the batch; I'm waiting to identify a single distinguishing trait. Good horns on the scherzo's reprise, I s'pose.
III. Wow, really slow and ominous march. Slightly overbright flute. By the time we get to the end I'm feeling like this reading is really comatose - like people are dying AT the funeral too!
IV. Making up for lost ground; the contrasting second subject does a great job providing respite, too. For the second time, I find the first horn player very impressive. Actually the brass is fairly awesome in general, as is the percussion. At 43' for the first time I feel like I'm admiring playing that stands out among these finalists. Fake climax around 45' is absolutely perfectly judged, and yes, I love the silly, indulgent pause right before the key change! The final coda is wildly exciting, too, and far better-balanced acoustically than A8's; the uniquely audible piccolo is either good or bad depending how you feel about piccolos.  I have no guess for this one, but I will say that I found the first half totally meh, the funeral march easily the worst of the lot, and the last movement outstanding. It all averages to, say, 6.8 out of 10; final ranking fifth and last.

C5: In the first round, where I made this my #1, I wrote, "how I always imagined Kubelik/DG might sound." I also made this #1 in the second round, where I called the scherzo "simply perfect."
I. This orchestra has mastered the rustic, central European Mahler sound. Horns have just a touch of Czech wobble to them, the violins are as smooth as a skating rink at 12', the woodwinds have great character and good solos. The conductor maintains a faultless pace and forward progress, and orchestral detail is splendiferous.
II. Immediate drop in sound quality; I think that's the transfer from Daniel's CD. Methinks the trio very good but slightly inferior to B1, maybe; I'll agree with my previous comment that the scherzo is basically perfect.
III. Hmm, very good without being great. I think I just yearn for a bit more portamento and weeping from the violins and more seamlessly woven klezmer episodes. Gets better by the end, a lot better. When the bassoon has its final solo, I almost thought I heard a Hungarian cembalom accompanying it...
IV. This is my fourth Mahler One listen of the day, so I'm getting pretty jaded, and I think even this recording got graded a little more harshly because of the "I've already heard all this three times today" effect. That said... goddamn. Just WOW. Everything everyone else said is true. Every second is flawlessly great and humongously emotionally engaging. Outstanding, at times very original phrasing. Great fake climax, great fadeout... wow the coda. Yeah this is amazing. I'm trying to remind myself that the funeral march was a touch too stiff, but when that's the only complaint I have, the conductor is this large-and-in-charge, and the orchestra is so utterly phenomenal and authentically central Europe... this judge says 9.4 out of 10; ranking FIRST.

C8: I know who this is. In the first round, I ranked this #3 (C5 #1, then Chailly) and wrote, "orchestral playing is obscenely good...French horns sound ridiculous...jubilant." Ranked it #2 to C5 in round 2, saying, "I liked it, but didn't get chills."
I. Like I said before, orchestral playing is obscenely good, and this orchestra can do things in the coda that no other orchestra in the competition could dream of.
II. Very good. Close to ideal. I listened without thinking of anything to say, actually.
III. A good bit faster than its main competition, C5, and I get that it's very pretty, but I still like it very much, and the lied at the heart of the movement is second only to the untoppable B1.
IV. This would have seemed very impressive except that it's my fifth listen of the day, I'm fatigued, and C5 was an absolute firecracker. It's quite good, but no C5. All told, this performance almost doesn't deserve to be ranked on the same scale as the others; its orchestra is unstoppably great, more so when you know as I do that this is a live recording from a band not globally known for playing this incredible. Its conductor has a unique vision of the piece and really milks the first movement coda, among other great moments, for all it's worth. I wished he hammed it up with equal abandon in the funeral march - but this recording is very special even though I'm ranking it third. This judge says 8.0 out of 10; ranking third.

FINAL RANKINGS
1. C5
2. B1
3. C8
4. A8
5. B8

BONUS: Movement-by-Movement Favorites!
Langsam, schleppend – Immer sehr gemächlich C8
Kräftig bewegt, doch nicht zu schnell – Recht gemächlich (restrained), Trio C5
Feierlich und gemessen, ohne zu schleppen – Sehr einfach und schlicht wie eine Volksweise – Wieder etwas bewegter, wie im Anfang B1
Stürmisch bewegt – Energisch C5

DOUBLE EXTRA BONUS: Artist Guesses
A8: Solti/LSO? But Sarge narrowed it down to three possibilities, and of those I'll guess Horenstein. (edit: Sarge clarified that he did not, in fact, do so)
B1: SFSO/Tilson Thomas?
B8: no guess
C5: I haven't the foggiest. Could be German, more likely central Europe... no idea.
C8: I know this one. The conductor's name anagrams to "Hack Demon Fern"

[Sergeant Rock]

The choices so far:

DavidRoss  Beale  TimH   Sarge  Zauberflöte Trung224  mc urkneal  Brian

      C5          C5      B8      C8         C5                B1            C8              C5
      B8          B8      A8      C5          B1               C8             B8              B1
      A8          A8      C8      B1          C8               C5             C5             C8
      B1          B1      C5      B8          A8               A8              A8             A8
      C8          C8      B1      A8          B8               B8              B1             B8

[Sergeant Rock]

A8:[/b] Solti/LSO? But Sarge narrowed it down to three possibilities, and of those I'll guess Horenstein.

I don't want to give you the wrong idea. I acquired A8 after posting my then current list of favorites still possibly in the running. A8 isn't Horenstein.

Sarge