Where to study composition?

[mikkeljs]

Hi

I was planning to apply again this year for composition in Copenhagen, but due to difficult economical problems, all my time was eaten up, so I probably dont have time enought to prepare my application program. Im also a bit unsatisfied with the corruption that takes place there.

Im looking for a place with a very good composition teacher, and preferably no side-subjects at all. Side-subjects are nothing but BS dictated by the govenment, to say it mildly. Society is destroying the conservatories like they have already corrupted the rest of the education system to the core. Probably the only right thing is to study privately by a very highly acknowledged composer. Im unclear about my strategy - should I go for a composer who appeal to me, or rather someone as different as possible?

Mikkel

[rappy]

 How about studying in Germany? Do you speak German? There are so many High Schools with good teachers all around.

[Mirror Image]

My advice is look for an experienced teacher to study with privately. This will give you basis in the fundamentals in music and you don't have to compete with other people to get your questions answered. Private study all the way. The only problem with studying privately is that there is a possibility that you  won't get as many connections as you would when you study at a conservatory or university. It just comes down to what you prefer. I understand your stance on the whole education system though and agree that many times they just chew you up and spit you out and, in the end, your knowledge isn't any better then when you started.

[mikkeljs]

My advice is look for an experienced teacher to study with privately. This will give you basis in the fundamentals in music and you don't have to compete with other people to get your questions answered. Private study all the way. The only problem with studying privately is that there is a possibility that you  won't get as many connections as you would when you study at a conservatory or university. It just comes down to what you prefer. I understand your stance on the whole education system though and agree that many times they just chew you up and spit you out and, in the end, your knowledge isn't any better then when you started.

Im glad you understand my concern. Its easy to be accepted as a composition student in Copenhagen. When I applied 2 years ago, I spent only 4 days learning twelve-tone disciplin and got top mark. However they didnt like my compositions, but they gladly accept composers who cant tell an octave from a fifth. I studied piano there for 3 years, so I attended the composers seminars (borring as hell, no substance at all) and I keep in touch with teachers and composer students, so I know a lot about the place. The environment is great and so are the teachers, but the system just doesnt work at all. Especially when you are forced to spent hours every week on senseless side-subjects.

How about studying in Germany? Do you speak German? There are so many High Schools with good teachers all around.

Yes I speak german. I can imagine there are good teachers there, but then again, too many primitive side-subjects and crazy bureaucracy.

Im primarily looking for someone to study private or maybe some kind of private school. Just want to research. I propably have also grown very selective about everything, hehe.

If Sorabji was still alive, I would do everything to get to study with him. Are there any acknowlegded contemporary composers who are deeply involved with theosophy? Perhabs a theosophical music school?

[Mirror Image]

Im glad you understand my concern. Its easy to be accepted as a composition student in Copenhagen. When I applied 2 years ago, I spent only 4 days learning twelve-tone disciplin and got top mark. However they didnt like my compositions, but they gladly accept composers who cant tell an octave from a fifth. I studied piano there for 3 years, so I attended the composers seminars (borring as hell, no substance at all) and I keep in touch with teachers and composer students, so I know a lot about the place. The environment is great and so are the teachers, but the system just doesnt work at all. Especially when you are forced to spent hours every week on senseless side-subjects.

Then I would seriously seek out a private teacher, preferably one that is into all periods of classical music, but has a special affinity for 20th Century and Contemporary music.

[Rinaldo]

I'm getting strong Langgaardian overtones from mikkeljs!

[mikkeljs]

I'm getting strong Langgaardian overtones from mikkeljs!

Haha!  I admire Langgård very much too.

I have very limitted knowledge about the conservatories abroad, except I know that many central european places are quantitatively overcrowded with subjects. What about places like India, the Middle-East or other places known to have a rich culture? I think I also need to broaden my experience with the most recent contemporary composers, but when I request it, Im always recommanded some spectral composer.

You are more than welcome to list some contemporary composers, that I can explore, both very high profile and unknown ones. I know that Alistair Hinton was closest to Sorabji, but havent found any of his music yet. Difficult, when you are so poor that you cant even afford to buy a cd. 

[snyprrr]

All I want to know is the "how" of putting notes on paper. I should be able to get that from something like Gardner Read's Notation, shouldn't I? It's all about MY ideas, MY work, me me me... do whatever is best for YOU!

What is wrong that you can't write music with your current ability? Surely your creative mind can WILL an idea into an existence that your hand will be able to follow?

Surely one can play on a recordable piano thingy and whip up a piece in no time? With no rules,... that's what I want, a fairytale playland of music wonders!!

[mikkeljs]

All I want to know is the "how" of putting notes on paper. I should be able to get that from something like Gardner Read's Notation, shouldn't I? It's all about MY ideas, MY work, me me me... do whatever is best for YOU!

What is wrong that you can't write music with your current ability? Surely your creative mind can WILL an idea into an existence that your hand will be able to follow?

Surely one can play on a recordable piano thingy and whip up a piece in no time? With no rules,... that's what I want, a fairytale playland of music wonders!!

Because no matter how good you are, there is always more to explore. And with time, one gets more selective about teachers as well. But you have a point!

[ibanezmonster]

Yes I speak german. I can imagine there are good teachers there, but then again, too many primitive side-subjects and crazy bureaucracy.

Side-subjects are probably everywhere. I sometimes wonder what poetry has to do with computer science, but I have to do it, anyways.

The thing I always wonder about going to school for music composition is: can you make a living off of it? It would sure be fun, but afterwards, a lifetime of unpayable student debt and working at Wal-Mart doesn't sound very appealing. I've never had the urge to go to school to study anything; school is for getting a job, for me. And also, I enjoy and succeed at my studies more when studying alone.

I'm just wondering out loud why anyone would go to school for music; becoming a music professor or composer in residence would be great, but what are the odds, percentage-wise?...

[Rinaldo]

I'm just wondering out loud why anyone would go to school for music; becoming a music professor or composer in residence would be great, but what are the odds, percentage-wise?...

Low. But that should never keep anyone from pursuing his ambitions.

[mikkeljs]

Side-subjects are probably everywhere. I sometimes wonder what poetry has to do with computer science, but I have to do it, anyways.

The thing I always wonder about going to school for music composition is: can you make a living off of it? It would sure be fun, but afterwards, a lifetime of unpayable student debt and working at Wal-Mart doesn't sound very appealing. I've never had the urge to go to school to study anything; school is for getting a job, for me. And also, I enjoy and succeed at my studies more when studying alone.

I'm just wondering out loud why anyone would go to school for music; becoming a music professor or composer in residence would be great, but what are the odds, percentage-wise?...

I have had big financial problems for a long time because that I refuse to be enslaved by the system. In the mean time I have experimented with starting my own business 4 times, and Im still trying. If I can make a business with micropropagation of rare plants, I hope that I can make a living from less than an hour of work pr week. It didnt work out yet, but Im optimistic. There MUST be a way! Being both a pianist and composer is in itself defying the laws of nature, timewise. 

[ibanezmonster]

I have had big financial problems for a long time because that I refuse to be enslaved by the system. In the mean time I have experimented with starting my own business 4 times, and Im still trying. If I can make a business with micropropagation of rare plants, I hope that I can make a living from less than an hour of work pr week. It didnt work out yet, but Im optimistic. There MUST be a way! Being both a pianist and composer is in itself defying the laws of nature, timewise. 

Definitely keep trying at that business idea.

[relm1]

The thing I always wonder about going to school for music composition is: can you make a living off of it? It would sure be fun, but afterwards, a lifetime of unpayable student debt and working at Wal-Mart doesn't sound very appealing. I've never had the urge to go to school to study anything; school is for getting a job, for me. And also, I enjoy and succeed at my studies more when studying alone.

I'm just wondering out loud why anyone would go to school for music; becoming a music professor or composer in residence would be great, but what are the odds, percentage-wise?...

Sounds like a career in music is not for you then.  I don't think the odds of being a successful composer are worse than being a physicist or successful entrepreneur.  I'm a composer and some classmates are doing quite well financially, but there are easier ways they could have chosen to make money.  Instead they found a way to do it with their passion.  Good on them.  I believe the professional composer must have the unquenchable desire to write music regardless of the obstacles.  That obsessive desire is just the starting point. 

[relm1]

Im glad you understand my concern. Its easy to be accepted as a composition student in Copenhagen. When I applied 2 years ago, I spent only 4 days learning twelve-tone disciplin and got top mark. However they didnt like my compositions, but they gladly accept composers who cant tell an octave from a fifth. I studied piano there for 3 years, so I attended the composers seminars (borring as hell, no substance at all) and I keep in touch with teachers and composer students, so I know a lot about the place. The environment is great and so are the teachers, but the system just doesnt work at all. Especially when you are forced to spent hours every week on senseless side-subjects.

Yes I speak german. I can imagine there are good teachers there, but then again, too many primitive side-subjects and crazy bureaucracy.

Im primarily looking for someone to study private or maybe some kind of private school. Just want to research. I propably have also grown very selective about everything, hehe.

If Sorabji was still alive, I would do everything to get to study with him. Are there any acknowlegded contemporary composers who are deeply involved with theosophy? Perhabs a theosophical music school?

From what little you've said, I think you would hate music schools and most music teachers.  Best you shop around for the one you click with.  A lot of what you have to study in composition will be different from what you want to study so a.) you can hopefully become a well balanced composer and b.) learn how to learn.  Some classmates absolutely hated this and could not deal with working outside their interest.  They struggled in school though remain good composers in their way.  One big advantage to music schools though is the network and performance opportunities that are critical to becoming a professional composer.   Don't be insulted by this question but are you sure you aren't better suited to pursue music composition as a hobby instead of as a career?

[springrite]

Which what you have said, I imagine you'd have even more difficulty find a good composition teacher who would accept you.

[Cato]

Can you be more specific about the worthless "side subjects" you are required to take?

As a teacher I must speak in favor of a well-rounded education: a future musician should know about Poetry (great poetry, not clumsy, anti-musical prose arranged in stanzas, which is too often what we see today), and Literature in general, Mathematics, Foreign Languages (you already know German, so that is good), Science, Philosophy, History, even Theology.

If however, you are being required to take idiotic courses ("Lifestyle Studies" or something like these:  http://www.trutv.com/dumb_as_a_blog/gallery/americas-dumbest-college-classes.html   Yes, you can get a degree from a supposedly major American university in "Star Trek Studies.") then I understand your reluctance.

I was an autodidact in music, and immersed myself in e.g. Fux's Gradus Ad Parnassum and scores upon scores, from the beginnings of polyphony to Penderecki.  I have mentioned that Alexander Tcherepnin consented to correspond with me: he was not a teacher per se, but did offer advice now and then.

You might consider that: if however, you are still not sure about basic harmony and counterpoint, and cannot understand it on your own, then certainly look for a school.

[Karl Henning]

. . . I believe the professional composer must have the unquenchable desire to write music regardless of the obstacles.  That obsessive desire is just the starting point. 

This.