Blind Comparison: Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique

[mahler10th]

Thank you for counting me in late.  I got the file a couple of days ago and here are my comments written as listened:

A1 - Nice build up at start.  Nice precise orchestral playing and multi-pacing.  As smooth as you like with a wee bit of
spice.  I like it, it is more than 'big' enough, but just not 'visceral' enough! It is conducted to sound beautiful and
harmonically consistent with less emphasis on the drama, just like when I hear Mutis Tchaikovsky.  There are some pretty good
sonic dynamics in this recording though.  I would not be unhappy with this, but I would think there might be better out there.
8/10

A5 - Now we're talking.  There is magic from the start.  There is much more narrative here, the conductor is letting the music
tell its own story by bringing out its strong parts and maintining lines of melody with a seemingly better understanding of
what it is that should underpin this music.  I love this.  It is most magnificent.  Drama.  Mystery.  Surprise.  All there,
brilliantly articulated in the most expressive romantic idiom.  I would be more than happy with this, and it would halt any
further searches for something that makes this symphony work.
10/10

B2 - Already I don't like the beginning.  A crazy recording.  Something synthetic about it.  Is it a a digital remaster that
went wrong?  One only has two ears, but here one might be mistaken for having multi-omni ears.  The recording itself is good,
but the performance lacks...Berlioz!  This is Berlioz played by a hefty Orchestra in front of a studio audience in an
afternoon talk show, with speakers all over the room.  I would not be happy with this at all, plenty of swirl, but not a soul
to be seen.
5/10

B6 - Tiptoes in.  it's starting out as a 'light' version.  Some of the phrasing 'heard' to be deliberate, but so far this is
nice, twinkletoes. Great interplay between the brass when they're there.  This conductor takes you to an end, but wait,
there's more to go..!  Classical playing, and soon not as 'light' as it appeared.  Great use of cymbals or good sound
engineering?  I think the former. The Bassonist could give it a bit more feeling consistent with the piece though.  A more
resonant and human sounding basson would make this eminently listenable, which it is, if it had a more expressive
bassoon...LOL
  7/10

C2 - I like it.  Something old school about it.  Mengelberg would do something like this, with all the added wee touches here
and there.  A cuddle for the bassoonist may be necessary - nice feeling to it.  I can hear this being played in Paris, it is
right for it.  I would be very happy with this, but only because the conductor is so damn cheeky, and I can hear things in
this that make this music a living thing.  Brilliant.  Full, appropriately tragi-pompous, colourful, but not overly excitable.
10/10

C5 - Seemingly rapid entry.  What?  What is this?  An EXTREMELY stylized version of things.  I am unhappy with particular
emphasis here and there, but by all the Gods, it is being brilliantly played by the orchetra.  It has lost some of it's life
because of this, and is another recording that could do with more Berlioz in it.  It all gets a bit rather silly and rushed.
  5/10


For me it is between A5 and C2...

1.  A5
2.  C2
3.  A1
4.  B6
5.  C5
6.  B2

[TheGSMoeller]

Thank you so much, John (my new Rangstrom friend) for the votes!!!!

[Karl Henning]

Go, Johnny, go!

[madaboutmahler]

Great comments! Thank you very much for your vote, John!

I suppose voting can end tonight then, Round 2 results and final round links out soon!

[Sergeant Rock]

Group Y

xochitl  Sarge  aukhawk  mc urkneal  trng224

A4         C3          A4             C4             A4
B4         A2           B4             B1             C4
C3         C4          C4             A4             C3
A2         B4           A2             C3             A2
C4         B1           B1             B4             B4
B1         A4           C3             A2             B1


Group X

Brian   trung224  Sarge  Scots John

   C2        B2          C2          A5
   B2        C5          A1          C2
   C5        C2          C5          A1 
   B6         A1          B2          B6
   A5         A5          B6          C5
   A1         B6          A5          B2

[TheGSMoeller]

Results will be posted this evening...

[TheGSMoeller]

12) B1 Semyon Bychkov/Orchestra de Paris (1994)



"straight, ordinary performance"
"march...steadily gains momentum to a storming finish."
"...overall meh"


French orchestra, French composer, French Russian conductor, must be good? Don't let the colorful/playful-text on the album cover fool you, this one blandly stands at the bottom of this round. Cool blue jeans though.





11) B6 Christoph von Dohnányi/Cleveland Orchestra (1991)



"Classical playing, and soon not as 'light' as it appeared."
"Ordinary, Run-through performance."
"The march didn't do anything for me."

This combo has been successful in Beethoven, Brahms and Bruckner. But three "B"s is enough. This one gets an "F", for Ferlioz. Alright, it's not that bad, but they certainly left any passion they had for this work in the taxi cab on the way to the recording session.





10) C3 Jos van Immerseel/Anima Eterna (2010)



"march - slower is ok, but there has to be something gained by that, and I don't feel it here"
"The waltz is intensely beautiful. Perhaps too mannered for the ballroom, but utterly lovely"
"Impressive, but somewhat muddy acoustic lets this one down, for me."

This is one that left a poor initial impression on me, but with time and some patience, I have grown very, very fond of it. Although splitting-hairs in this comparison, Immerseel and his historically-informed reading made it further than some well known heavy-hitters. And could have even gone further if the Scène aux champs (Adagio) was part of this round.





9) B4 Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic (1963)



"lots of instrumental detail"
"bland waltz...while march is a bit better."
"I wouldn't be so eager for the blade. This has the best "execution" though: poignant and 'realistic.' "

Berlioz be in America! O.K. by some in America! Detail is good in America! But only 9th place in America!      


Sorry, couldn't resist. 
But Lenny does get mucho points for this...

http://www.youtube.com/v/Mvh1gpdxCv0





8 ) A2 Valery Gergiev/Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (2003)



"real waltz here, played at a danceable tempo."
"march taken slow and a bit draggy"

Second place in one, and last in another. The waltz was good, the march was not. Another example of a fantastique performance see-sawing it's way through. Perhaps Gergiev forgot his toothpick.





7) A5 Simon Rattle/Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (2009)



"The march starts off very well indeed...but for the most part this one's not doing it for me."
"It is most magnificent.  Drama.  Mystery.  Surprise.  All there"
"The "Un bal" movement is ordinary but the March is energetic and frightening in the finale."


Looked poorly upon by three, and highly praised by one. Starting to see a pattern? It seems conductors are having difficulty convincing in all facets of this piece. Well, some conductors, the final round has no room for "some-of-the-time" performances, does it, Simon?





6) A1 Michael Tilson Thomas/San Francisco Symphony Orchestra (1998)



"There are some pretty good sonic dynamics in this recording."
"I like its vision but it is not "fantatique" by any mean"
"Definitely not what I'd choose to advance."

The last of the American/American combination. Just as a reference, it received a 10/10 from Classics Today's own, David Hurwitz. (he's always good subject for conversation) 





Well, there you have it. The Bad Boys (and Girls) of Round 2. The consensus was very split on each of these, even the 6th place MTT barely beat out its followers.
The top 5 is solid, yet surprising. And contains my personal favorite recording. 
Should be a fun final round!!!!
Thank you for all those that have participated!!!!!!

[Brian]

YOU BASTARDS ELIMINATED BERNSTEIN!??!

So far in this game, my five favorites have apparently been B2, A4, C2, Gergiev, and most of all my personal favorite performance, Bernstein.

I make the finalists to be A4, B2, C2, C5 and one I haven't heard at all, C4. My favorite individual clip so far was Bernstein's by a mile (I gave it a 9.5 in the first round, albeit knowing who it was), but B2 and C2 were close behind. C5 is totally bonkers. Should be interesting.

So then, on to the finals: A4, B2, C2, C4, C5.

[TheGSMoeller]

YOU BASTARDS ELIMINATED BERNSTEIN!??!

So far in this game, my five favorites have apparently been B2, A4, C2, Gergiev, and most of all my personal favorite performance, Bernstein.

I make the finalists to be A4, B2, C2, C5 and one I haven't heard at all, C4. My favorite individual clip so far was Bernstein's by a mile (I gave it a 9.5 in the first round, albeit knowing who it was), but B2 and C2 were close behind. C5 is totally bonkers. Should be interesting.

So then, on to the finals: A4, B2, C2, C4, C5.

The Bernstein is a mammoth. I was hoping to see it get higher.

And C5 is absolutely bonkers! But that could be its edge for a victory!

[mc ukrneal]

YOU BASTARDS ELIMINATED BERNSTEIN!??!

So far in this game, my five favorites have apparently been B2, A4, C2, Gergiev, and most of all my personal favorite performance, Bernstein.

I make the finalists to be A4, B2, C2, C5 and one I haven't heard at all, C4. My favorite individual clip so far was Bernstein's by a mile (I gave it a 9.5 in the first round, albeit knowing who it was), but B2 and C2 were close behind. C5 is totally bonkers. Should be interesting.

So then, on to the finals: A4, B2, C2, C4, C5.

Good riddence I say!  Seriously, I loved his La Mer, but this one - not so much. At least we agreed that the Gergiev totally suc...oops! 

[aukhawk]

The consensus was very split on each of these, even the 6th place MTT barely beat out its followers.

By my reckoning (scores, not personal choice) there are two clear front runners though.

I used to have that Bernstein recording as a rough old LP - didn't spot it this time through - that sounds like a very good transfer, and I had it earmarked as my joint 2nd-favourite.

I was recently listening to an old podcast of a 'Building a Library', of Beethoven's Violin Concerto, which took the form of a conversation between two pundits, on the merits of various recent recordings**.  One was Howard Goodall I think (can't absolutely be sure from memory) and he was asked "are there any sticking points for you - individual moments that would simply rule out a recording?" and his reply was along the lines of, "well, yes there are - but in that case we can stop this review now."
I feel a bit that way about one of the survivors!      The others all have lots to like though, so far. [thumbs-up]

I'm in for the finals (whenever you're ready chaps  )


** _{Faust won, but only by having fewer "NO!!" moments than anyone else.}

[Daverz]

YOU BASTARDS ELIMINATED BERNSTEIN!??!

There are 2 other Bernstein recordings, so maybe those are still in the running?

[trung224]

  Surprised that Bernstein's performances was eliminated. But Bernstein IMHO was never good at the charm , waltz-like movement such as  the Unbal , and he did best at the turbulent Finale. Well, A1 is Tilson Thomas, so I think I will buy one copy for this original interpretation.
   Thank for all your effort, Greg and Daniel!

[Sergeant Rock]

9) B4 Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic (1963)

Berlioz be in America! O.K. by some in America! Detail is good in America! But only 9th place in America!      

  ...I have the sudden urge to listen to West Side Story.

Sorry, Brian, Greg...I did love the march but agree with Trung: Lenny's ball let me way down.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

(* fandangos on the table *)

[Brian]

Good riddence I say!  Seriously, I loved his La Mer, but this one - not so much. At least we agreed that the Gergiev totally suc...oops! 

I'll clearly have to listen to Lenny's Waltz again. But I'm partially evaluating these performances on romantic excess, overheating, mood swings, energetic mania. The sheer insanity of C5 proved that I do have my limits, but that must explain why I liked Gergiev, a conductor who doesn't really interest me, and why I keep voting for all the fierce, wild recordings in ancient sound.

[Sergeant Rock]

....but that must explain why I liked Gergiev...

Interesting, I think, that the waltz I liked best is revealed to be conducted by the man of the theater, the conductor of ballet. To me Gergiev felt the most danceable. Obviously that means little to most of you guys  ...clearly so when the manic, slam dancing A4 is rated so highly by everyone but me in the Y group 

Sarge

[aukhawk]

I agree that, if it's a ballroom you're looking for, A2 was easily the best (of the ones I've heard so far). Fascinating it was Gergiev.

My 'Fantasy Fastastique' so far is - Movt 1, B2 ... 2, A4 ... 3, ?? ... 4, C4 ... 5, C2
all anonymous so far - I wonder if these four conductors would even be seen dead in the same room together? 

[mc ukrneal]

Interesting, I think, that the waltz I liked best is revealed to be conducted by the man of the theater, the conductor of ballet. To me Gergiev felt the most danceable. Obviously that means little to most of you guys  ...clearly so when the manic, slam dancing A4 is rated so highly by everyone but me in the Y group 

Sarge

But this is what is so interesting to me, because I found the Gergiev so bland. I really have trouble hearing much theatrical. The playing is excellent - I have no quarrels with that. I use the word bland, mostly because the differentiation in the dynamics and such are not really all that noticeable. Granted, the first few bars are pretty good, but the rest of it does not hold up to the start. C4, for example, has a much more dynamc range. It also seems to have more detail which makes the section breathe (as opposed to Gergiev, which seems monotone in character to me). I think one of the other reasons I say it is monotone is that the harps don't seem to me to have impact. That is, they are pretty, but I'd rather they sometimes stand out a bit more. I couldn't always hear them as I wanted (so maybe this is my peculiarity - not sure).

AS to danceable, I am unsure what to say. Rather, the fact that they will slow down or speed up does not, for me, make it undanceable. I picture in mind some sort of pose or controlled slowing movement that they sometimes do in dance. But a different view is equally valid, so this a question more of taste I think.

[Sergeant Rock]

AS to danceable, I am unsure what to say. Rather, the fact that they will slow down or speed up does not, for me, make it undanceable. I picture in mind some sort of pose or controlled slowing movement that they sometimes do in dance. But a different view is equally valid, so this a question more of taste I think.

By danceable I mean primarily a tempo that wouldn't leave a ballroom full of couples in elegant dress breathless and sweaty after 45 seconds 

Sarge