Beethoven Symphonies Cycle: Which is your #1 pick?

[Karl Henning]

Not my station.

[George]

Scots John said:

This recent Thielmann set hasn't had a mention.  I'm buying it now, based on some downloaded live recordings of Thielmann doing Beethoven with the VPO.  I really do like the sound of his Beethoven.  Anyone else?

[mahler10th]

Fixed.

  Thanks for that George.  I have removed the MASSIVE picture of the cover now.

[mahler10th]

HELLOOOOOOOO!!!   Anyone there??  This post has been hoping for an answer...

This recent Thielmann set hasn't had a mention.  I'm buying it now, based on some downloaded live recordings of Thielmann doing Beethoven with the VPO.  I really do like the sound of his Beethoven.  Anyone else?  Comments?  Anything?  I still haven't bought it yet as I would like to hear the trusted opinions of GMGers who have it or have heard it. 

[kishnevi]

HELLOOOOOOOO!!!   Anyone there??  This post has been hoping for an answer...

This recent Thielmann set hasn't had a mention.  I'm buying it now, based on some downloaded live recordings of Thielmann doing Beethoven with the VPO.  I really do like the sound of his Beethoven.  Anyone else?  Comments?  Anything?  I still haven't bought it yet as I would like to hear the trusted opinions of GMGers who have it or have heard it. 

Oh, if you haven't gotten it (I thought you had, and so refrained.  But if you haven't....) IMO, it's a set that can be safely skipped.  Possibly I listened to it in too close proximity to the Chailly set, but the Chailly (and Paavo Jarvi's cycle) seemed superior to my ears.     If you want to direct your attention to a cycle in the making,  Michael Tilson Thomas/San Francisco Orchestra is in the process of issuing a cycle one CD at a time.  The Second Symphony just came out.

[Wanderer]

HELLOOOOOOOO!!!   Anyone there??  This post has been hoping for an answer...

This recent Thielmann set hasn't had a mention.  I'm buying it now, based on some downloaded live recordings of Thielmann doing Beethoven with the VPO.  I really do like the sound of his Beethoven.  Anyone else?  Comments?  Anything?  I still haven't bought it yet as I would like to hear the trusted opinions of GMGers who have it or have heard it. 

If these are the same performances as those in his Blu-ray cycle, I'd say that they're good, but not essential. Powerful and hefty, but with a tendency to unwarranted heavy-handedness, as if an oppressive weight constantly looms over pace and proceedings.

[Brian]

For those who can compare Thielemann with Barenboim, how is that comparison? I have Barenboim, another slower, "heavier" big-orchestra reading, but I love it, whereas the clips of Thielemann that Jens posted left me cold.

[mahler10th]

 
Many thanks folks, what a shame, I had some high hopes for it because the Beethoven I have heard from him was well crafted and near Mengelberg-like in creative touch.  I'm still considering it though - and for sure I'll check out MTT's SFSO set as it reveals itself.   

[George]

I have Barenboim, another slower, "heavier" big-orchestra reading, but I love it,

Me too!!

[kishnevi]

For those who can compare Thielemann with Barenboim, how is that comparison? I have Barenboim, another slower, "heavier" big-orchestra reading, but I love it, whereas the clips of Thielemann that Jens posted left me cold.

I'd favor Barenboim, but not enough to suggest anyone run out and get it. Barenboim's approach seemed a little fresher to me.   That applies to both the older Barenboim-in-a-fedora set and the Beethoven for All cycle.

But I think I need to give Thielemann another audition.  I did listen to it close in time to listening to Chailly, and it inevitably suffered by the comparison.  Plus I was put off by the marketing somewhat, which seemed to think the best way to motivate buyers was with the "look! look! Important conductor leading world famous orchestra!" angle.

Another, more tangential negative, is that it had a somewhat higher price point because of the somewhat luxe packaging and the included DVD.

[Brian]

I was put off by the marketing somewhat, which seemed to think the best way to motivate buyers was with the "look! look! Important conductor leading world famous orchestra!" angle.

Well to me that is a very good selling point! The marketing aspect that bothers me was that they advertised it as something like "THE Beethoven cycle for the 21st century!" Sorry, but you're at best the 14th or 15th cycle so far this century.

[Wakefield]

Well to me that is a very good selling point! The marketing aspect that bothers me was that they advertised it as something like "THE Beethoven cycle for the 21st century!" Sorry, but you're at best the 14th or 15th cycle so far this century.

I'm curious, Brian: Have you listened to the cycle conducted by Jan Willem de Vriend?

I think it's a good mixture of several traits that you enjoy. I started with his Ninth. Just in case: It's available on the NML. 

[Wanderer]

I'd favor Barenboim, but not enough to suggest anyone run out and get it. Barenboim's approach seemed a little fresher to me.   That applies to both the older Barenboim-in-a-fedora set and the Beethoven for All cycle.

I feel the same way. Which is not to say that I think Barenboim is notably more special generally speaking, rather than he does manage to sound "fresher" in comparison. Thielemann sounds like very heavy old-school in his otherwise good (and insightful) renditions.

[xochitl]

i recently saw thielemann and pollini doing the brahms PC1 on youtube and the orchestral direction totally bowled me over!

will check out his beethoven and report later...

[betterthanfine]

I wasn't too impressed with Thielemann's Beethoven. I listened to a few symphonies when it came out (3, 5, 7) and while there were parts that were very refined and beautiful, overall I found the performances fairly bland.

[NJ Joe]

This thread caused me to go on yet another Beethoven symphony cycle listening binge.  I own and enjoy Walter/Col SO, Klemperer, Szell, Bernstein NY, HvK '63, HvK '77, Bohm/VPO, Gardiner, Norrington/LCP, Mackerras/SCO, Jarvi, and Immerseel.

But my number one choice remains Harnoncourt.

[Brahmsian]

This thread caused me to go on yet another Beethoven symphony cycle listening binge.  I own and enjoy Walter/Col SO, Klemperer, Szell, Bernstein NY, HvK '63, HvK '77, Bohm/VPO, Gardiner, Norrington/LCP, Mackerras/SCO, Jarvi, and Immerseel.

But my number one choice remains Harnoncourt.

+1 

[Mookalafalas]

I've been listening to the 1958 (Not 1951) Scherchen Eroica, recorded for Westminster, and find it thrilling.  I'm an Eroica nut, but right now (and it might be partly "the thrill of the new") it is my favorite.  Anyone familiar with it? '

Addendum: I've since been listening to 2,4, and 8th, and am finding it the most exhilarating LvB I've encountered.  HIP tempos, but a strangely light and playful attitude in the playing.  The sinew is there, but bouncy instead of weighty.  These versions seem full of love, but devoid of reverence.

[Cosi bel do]

I've been listening to the 1958 (Not 1951) Scherchen Eroica, recorded for Westminster, and find it thrilling.  I'm an Eroica nut, but right now (and it might be partly "the thrill of the new") it is my favorite.  Anyone familiar with it? '

Addendum: I've since been listening to 2,4, and 8th, and am finding it the most exhilarating LvB I've encountered.  HIP tempos, but a strangely light and playful attitude in the playing.  The sinew is there, but bouncy instead of weighty.  These versions seem full of love, but devoid of reverence.

You have great taste, this is clearly one of the best Eroicas out there. And Scherchen's Beethoven is great indeed, but this stereo Eroica is absolutely unforgettable, my favourite with Mengelberg's (Amsterdam 1940) and Furtwängler's (12/1944).

To answer to the main topic, I get less and less satisfied by cycles. All of them have flaws, and the better cycles are generally quite consensual and I always favour other interpretations of each of the symphonies. If I had to recommend a cycle to someone who doesn't have one, I would say Karajan 63, and Harnoncourt (overrated at first, his cycle is now incredibly underrated). Then, the live Mengelberg 1940, because he only fails in the 8th and 9th, and is very strong where others are generally forgettable (the best 4th ever). Scherchen comes a little behind, with Cluytens and Blomstedt also.

[kishnevi]

You have great taste, this is clearly one of the best Eroicas out there. And Scherchen's Beethoven is great indeed, but this stereo Eroica is absolutely unforgettable, my favourite with Mengelberg's (Amsterdam 1940) and Furtwängler's (12/1944).

To answer to the main topic, I get less and less satisfied by cycles. All of them have flaws, and the better cycles are generally quite consensual and I always favour other interpretations of each of the symphonies. If I had to recommend a cycle to someone who doesn't have one, I would say Karajan 63, and Harnoncourt (overrated at first, his cycle is now incredibly underrated). Then, the live Mengelberg 1940, because he only fails in the 8th and 9th, and is very strong where others are generally forgettable (the best 4th ever). Scherchen comes a little behind, with Cluytens and Blomstedt also.

"only fails in the 8th and 9th" is a pretty big flaw for me.
Actually,  I don't even consider cycles recorded before the 1950s--whatever artistic merit the performances might have is swallowed up, in my ears, by the sonics.  The only set I have from before then is Toscanini, bought in the early days of CD collecting.

Having very recently acquired Karajan's last (1980s) cycle,  I think I prefer it to most others, including his 1963 set.   My chief other MI preference is Chailly.   I'd call Cluytens and Blomstedt solid, but I prefer several others, including Bohm, Bernstein and Barenboim,  to them.