Purchases Today

[Madiel]

Everyone has to put a limit.

The question is simply what methods you use to impose it.

[71 dB]

I didn't say the technology was mystic. I said the idea was mystifying.

So you don't change the dirty sheets in your bed, because that would be mystifying? 

My response to something I don't like is to just not like it. Not to think that it's somehow my job to fix it according to my tastes. But I'm well aware I'm a dinosaur in this regard. People go changing the tracklist of pop albums on the day of release.

I did not fix anything! All the CDs in the World of that Elgar Violin Concerto performance are still yellow. I just used Gimp to show you others how Decca could have made the cover look so that I would not need to complain about the wild yellow background color.

[Brian]

But many Naxos recordings are piss poor performance-wise (there are exceptions of course). Their Elgar cycle is bottom-of-the-barrel to me and the same with their RVW cycle.

The only "piss poor" Naxos recordings I know are some violin and cello chamber albums of obscure romantic music with very amateurish performers of dubious intonation (if my memory is right, the Paul Juon violin sonatas and anything with Ina-Esther Joost Ben-Sasson) and some of the super old Slovak radio / Slovak minor town orchestras conducted by people like Alfred Walter. The first few Lyon orchestra recordings really blew chunks too.

The RVW cycle is very solid and the Elgar, which I don't remember well as I haven't heard it in a decade, features two British conductors with extremely long, respected pedigrees. I guess I'm annoyed because the phrase "piss poor" - with its needless vulgarity - connotes genuine, objective, consensus awfulness, not just "not quite as good" or "not to my personal taste." There's no need for that kind of thing, especially when, as here, it seems that you just want to attack another person's taste.

[Madiel]

So you don't change the dirty sheets in your bed, because that would be mystifying? 

This makes zero sense as a response. Bye.

[71 dB]

Ummm...no, I'm just talking out of the side of my mouth with no knowledge whatsoever of the performances I'm talking about. Of course I've heard Barbirolli's performances of the symphonies. I love them and they have more character and spirit than Downes or Hurst. Barbriolli's credentials as an Elgarian are world renown. Many people who are just getting into Elgar's music haven't the faintest clue who Downes or Hurst are and this even goes for people who are familiar with Elgar.

I had never heard about Barbirolli when I got into classical music. The only conductor I had heard about was Karajan. So, I knew about Downes and Hurst before I found out there some old recordings done by someone named Barbirolli. Maybe in the UK everyone knows Barbirolli. Not in Finland. Anyway, this is totally pointless. Listen to what you want and let me have my opinions.

[71 dB]

Actually, you would have to do your homework in order to find who the performers even are many of the Naxos label. So the whole 'no homework' schtick you're rambling on about is no true. Of all the mega box sets that are available now of legendary performances and of the composer-centric sets that have been flooding the market, one doesn't actually have to bother with Naxos at all. Listening to classical music should never be a laborious process, but you should at least have an idea about the kind of performances you'd like to hear. My point about Elgar is that there are so much of his music available outside of Naxos that it would foolish to limit oneself to one label only, which is what you seem like you do. It's not about sifting through countless performances to find the 'perfect' one. It's about finding performances that you enjoy and not putting a limit on what to listen to and what not to listen to.

My point is when I buy the Naxos I DON'T CARE about the performers! They can be from Mars! If the performance is decent to excellent and the sonics is good I am happy without knowing anything about the performers. If I am not satisfied with the Naxos then I can do the homework and purchase something better, but I can't even remember when that happened last time.

Since Elgar is my favorite composer, I have a lot of non-Naxos Elgar (barely 15 % of my Elgar collection is Naxos) including your beloved Barbirolli (so I can say to me he is overrated). I just bought an Elgar disc on Somm label. I am not limiting myself to one label. Less than half of my classical music collection is Naxos, but I have more Naxos than any other label. I tend to check first if Naxos has a good recording of a work I am interested and if not then I look other option.

[Mirror Image]

Everyone has to put a limit.

The question is simply what methods you use to impose it.

That's quite true. One can't hear everything, but I do think 71 dB's reliance on Naxos has kept him in the dark of many other great performances that he may only help enrich his experience with the composer in question.

[Brahmsian]

You are entitled to spend your money to any label you want. So am I. For me it's silly to overlook a classical music giant the Naxos is today just because they are a budget label and don't really use the BIGGEST stars on the planet.

I am with you 100% on this.

I own probably more Naxos recordings than any other label.

In all that time in the past fifteen years, I may have given away one or two of those recordings.

Like all other labels, they have good, not so good, and great to best available recordings.

They may be considered a 'budget label', but really only if general price. Certainly not in overall quality.

[71 dB]

The only "piss poor" Naxos recordings I know are some violin and cello chamber albums of obscure romantic music with very amateurish performers of dubious intonation (if my memory is right, the Paul Juon violin sonatas and anything with Ina-Esther Joost Ben-Sasson) and some of the super old Slovak radio / Slovak minor town orchestras conducted by people like Alfred Walter. The first few Lyon orchestra recordings really blew chunks too.

The RVW cycle is very solid and the Elgar, which I don't remember well as I haven't heard it in a decade, features two British conductors with extremely long, respected pedigrees. I guess I'm annoyed because the phrase "piss poor" - with its needless vulgarity - connotes genuine, objective, consensus awfulness, not just "not quite as good" or "not to my personal taste." There's no need for that kind of thing, especially when, as here, it seems that you just want to attack another person's taste.

Great post, thanks!

[71 dB]

I am with you 100% on this.

I own probably more Naxos recordings than any other label.

In all that time in the past fifteen years, I may have given away one or two of those recordings.

Like all other labels, they have good, not so good, and great to best available recordings.

They may be considered a 'budget label', but really only if general price. Certainly not in overall quality.

Nice to enjoy support around here. Of course Naxos is not always the way to go, but I'm sure a lot of classical music fans have noticed Naxos just happens to be a great way to collect and explore classical music.

[71 dB]

Let's move on...

Deal! 

[Mirror Image]

Of course Naxos is not always the way to go

When it comes to their Elgar, this is quite true.

[71 dB]

When it comes to their Elgar, this is quite true.

I thought you wanted to move on. 

The symphonies are some of the best performances I have heard, but I have not heard every performance out there. The Violin and Cello Concertos are good, but I admit you can do better. I even like the Gerontius which many dislike, but I think it's because the recording is quiet. One needs to turn up the volume. Anyway, Naxos has recorded so little Elgar that any Elgarian is quickly forced to explore other labels, EMI being perhaps the greatest Elgar label of all, don't you agree?

[Mirror Image]

I thought you wanted to move on. 

The symphonies are some of the best performances I have heard, but I have not heard every performance out there. The Violin and Cello Concertos are good, but I admit you can do better. I even like the Gerontius which many dislike, but I think it's because the recording is quiet. One needs to turn up the volume. Anyway, Naxos has recorded so little Elgar that any Elgarian is quickly forced to explore other labels, EMI being perhaps the greatest Elgar label of all, don't you agree?

I would say that, yes, EMI has a large Elgar catalog, but so does Chandos, but these aren't the only labels to have some great Elgar in their catalogs. One of the greatest Elgar recordings on Chandos, IMHO, was the Teresa Cahill/Gibson recording of The Spirit Of England. You remember this is a performance you criticized as having some kind of ground noise in the recording, which nobody cares about or even hears aside from you.

[Madiel]

That's quite true. One can't hear everything, but I do think 71 dB's reliance on Naxos has kept him in the dark of many other great performances that he may only help enrich his experience with the composer in question.

Quite possibly.

Meanwhile, he saves himself my process which has a tendency to take several years (literally) before I decide on a preferred recording... a process I generally don't mind myself, as I have plenty of music to listen to and have a personality that very much veers away from needing the 'latest' thing. Especially as I've discovered some benefits of streaming services (but even before that, iTunes had become very useful as a way of sampling performances).

Meanwhile I in turn save some pressure on my wallet, and perhaps more importantly my storage space.

[Brian]

you felt the need to criticize it all under the guise of showing support for your friend, 71 dB with whom you have some kind of 'big brother' relationship.

I'm not really friends with 71 but it is easy to sympathize with the victims of bullying.

P.S. I relistened to the Barbirolli EMI Elgar 1 recently... I thought it pretty dull.

[Mirror Image]

Quite possibly.

Meanwhile, he saves himself my process which has a tendency to take several years (literally) before I decide on a preferred recording... a process I generally don't mind myself, as I have plenty of music to listen to and have a personality that very much veers away from needing the 'latest' thing. Especially as I've discovered some benefits of streaming services (but even before that, iTunes had become very useful as a way of sampling performances).

Meanwhile I in turn save some pressure on my wallet, and perhaps more importantly my storage space.

Sometimes I wish I could be a bit more structured in my listening like you are and sometimes I can be, but, most of the time, I like to have my hand into several different pots. If I didn't already own the collection I currently have, streaming would have been a great option, but one of the benefits of adding so much of my collection to my computer is being able to see all of the album covers, but also having everything lineup alphabetically by composer. What would be a disadvantage for me as far as streaming would be remembering all of the composers I'd like to listen to at a given time. I could keep a notebook of composers I'm exploring, but, honestly, I just want to put my headphones on and click on a recording and listen.

[Madiel]

Sometimes I wish I could be a bit more structured in my listening like you are and sometimes I can be, but, most of the time, I like to have my hand into several different pots. If I didn't already own the collection I currently have, streaming would have been a great option, but one of the benefits of adding so much of my collection to my computer is being able to see all of the album covers, but also having everything lineup alphabetically by composer. What would be a disadvantage for me as far as streaming would be remembering all of the composers I'd like to listen to at a given time. I could keep a notebook of composers I'm exploring, but, honestly, I just want to put my headphones on and click on a recording and listen.

I do actually do that sometimes.

Not least with the hundreds of CDs I own. The main difference is that I rarely am interested in owning multiple performances of the same work. One will usually do me, so long as it's one that I really like.

In not unrelated news, it took me years to get around to finally renovating my bathroom. But by golly, 6.5 years later I'm still really, really happy with my tile choices.

[Brian]

These last few posts remind me I should do a bit more intensive of a diary with my current project (going through all the composers Z-A and listening to all the recordings I don't remember well).

[Mirror Image]

I do actually do that sometimes.

Not least with the hundreds of CDs I own. The main difference is that I rarely am interested in owning multiple performances of the same work. One will usually do me, so long as it's one that I really like.

In not unrelated news, it took me years to get around to finally renovating my bathroom. But by golly, 6.5 years later I'm still really, really happy with my tile choices.

Oh yes, if you're not interested in owning multiple performances of the same work, then you'll certainly save yourself a lot of money down the road. Back in late 2008 (when I started to seriously collect this music), classical recordings were so cheap. I was buying recordings on DG, Decca, EMI, Virgin Classics and labels like Hyperion and BIS were reasonably priced (new and used). Also, shipping prices were quite reasonable. From about '08 through '14 (roughly) is the period I amassed the bulk of my collection. The last few years has actually seen a decline in my purchases and this is mainly because I've been merely filling in gaps.