Blind Comparison: Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit

[Madiel]

Ooh. I've just seen this.  As a Ravel fan who's stumbled through learning Ondine (and shrieked in horror at the score of Scarbo), I hope I'm not too late to join in!

[mjwal]

My comments on these interpretations are rather handicapped by the deficient way in which they transfer to my laptop, with gaps in the sound and crackles etc; funny, because I have no trouble playing pieces on YouTube, despite having a rather less consistently even reception here in France than in Berlin.
My aesthetic stance towards these pieces is a general preference for characterful structuring rather than for impressionistic haze, narrative insight rather than virtuoso scintillation, a tissue of emergent contrast of light and shade, liquid and sharp contours, mixed by the hands of a magician. In Ondine there must be a sense of the shocks of the uncanny combined with those of the flagrantly erotic, together with malicious wit, as the text or prose poem by Aloysius Bertrand (from his first and only collection, Gaspard de la nuit) that inspired Ravel would suggest. It is striking how sound and song are suggested by this poem, which Ravel takes for the first part of his spooky triad. I here append my translation of this, as there is none apparently available on the net:
Ondine
- "Listen! - Listen! - It's me, it's Ondine, who with these drops of water is brushing against the sonorous diamonds of your window illuminated by the wan gleams of the moon; and here in her robe of mohair is the lady of the manor contemplating from her balcony the beauteous starry night and the lovely slumbering lake.
"Every wave is a nixie swimming in the current, each current is a path undulating towards my palace, and my palace is a watery edifice at the bottom of the lake, in the triangle of fire and earth and air.
"Listen! - Listen! - My father beats the croaking water  with a green alder branch  and my sisters' foamy arms caress the fresh islets of grasses, water lilies and gladioli, or they mock the bowed and bearded willow fishing with its line!"
*
Having murmured her song, she begged me to accept her ring on my finger, thus to become the spouse of an undine, and to visit her palace with her to be the king of the lakes.
And when I replied that I loved a mortal woman, shrewish and contrary, she shed a tear or two, burst out laughing and then vanished in showers of white spume that splashed along my blue-stained windowpanes.

16. Tinkly and droopy at the same time - "wet" in the wrong way - the structure is vague and the climax badly approached and executed. I lost interest almost from the start. Texture badly defined.
17 this is very atmospheric, reminding me of Liszt's Au bord d'une source in its romantic evocation of water - though far more ethereal, of course; but it did not suggest the uncanny aspects enough, being more contented with beautiful playing and less concerned with character; more impressionistic than expressionistic. Finally it was brilliant piano playing that lacked a sense of the narrative shape and complexity of the piece.
18 Here there is a sense of eery sadness present from the start, then the climax is well prepared and the aftermath more suggestive of the nixie's reactions as told by the text, and her disappearance at the end had something ironically petulant about it. The sound, however, is too little differentiated, the bass in particular, thus rendering Ravel's alchemy of sound and story less piercingly affecting.
19 This has better definition. I liked the return of the theme after the eruptive climax and the sadly solitary phrasing of Ondine's lament in unharmonised single notes was well done, with the final mocking scintillation of her disappearance very much in character.
20 Well-defined sense of meaning in the various complex interrelated patterns that are effectively accentuated by colouring. While I find the build-up to the climax and its calm postlude beautifully managed, the ending seemed a little too abrupt and inexpressive.

It was a pity that none of these recordings really approached my ideal - possibly also because of the faulty transmission. The recording I played beforehand to refamiliarise myself with the piece sounded much better and clearer, although itself no longer younger than springtime.
Evaluation:
8/10 19.
7/10 20.
7/10 18.
6/10 17.
5/10 16.

[Brian]

Thanks all for the comments so far! I hope you found it rewarding and will consider listening to a few more.

mjwal and banpuku, if you wouldn't mind scoring the recordings on a scale of 1-10. This is different from past games, but recordings will advance to the next round ("Le gibet") based on average score, rather than whether they ranked first place in their group.

mjwal, I'm sorry to hear about the transmission problems, but you should also be informed that several of the recordings you heard, in fact a majority, are very old or live. I think 3 of them are 50+ years old. If you had problems with 17, please tell me, because 17 is supposed to be in very high quality sound!

[mjwal]

I tried to listen to 17 again - but the file that comes up says it is 16 - and so does the file for 18, though I have put 18 into the link as instructed! Either I am missing the point or something is dodgy about this new way of accessing the music. I give up.

Thanks all for the comments so far! I hope you found it rewarding and will consider listening to a few more.

mjwal and banpuku, if you wouldn't mind scoring the recordings on a scale of 1-10. This is different from past games, but recordings will advance to the next round ("Le gibet") based on average score, rather than whether they ranked first place in their group.

mjwal, I'm sorry to hear about the transmission problems, but you should also be informed that several of the recordings you heard, in fact a majority, are very old or live. I think 3 of them are 50+ years old. If you had problems with 17, please tell me, because 17 is supposed to be in very high quality sound!

[Brian]

Hrrrmm... is anybody else having these problems? 

[Beale]

Hrrrmm... is anybody else having these problems? 

I can't say I encountered that problem. I managed to download these MP3 files by right-click and save-as: pianist16ondine, pianist17ondine, pianist18ondine, pianist19ondine and pianist20ondine.

[mjwal]

I didn't realise I could download them. But the files are still all labelled pianist 16. I'm afraid I find this all very confusing, which may have also to do with the present state of my health and patches of memory loss, so I'm dropping it and leaving this forum.

[Karl Henning]

Well, don't leave the forum, dude!

[Madiel]

A general observation, having listened to 2.5 recordings and checked the timings of a couple more downloads:

Too many pianists take Ondine too freaking fast!

EDIT: I'm almost finding a direct correlation between longer running time and greater enjoyment.  Almost.

[MishaK]

Ok. Herewith the first five. Listened on Senns steaming while under the influence of a glass of Sancerre.

11 ostinato a bit labored and sloppy. Chiseled sound that I generally don't like but surprisingly not without atmosphere. Phrasing too careful. Sounds like the pianist is phrasing more to avoid mistakes than because the music demands it that way. Runs rather muddled. But still surprisingly good dynamic control. Good understanding of the idiom, but too unwilling to let loose and go to the edge of the precipice to really convince me. 6

12 This is so slow and chiseled the opening ostinato sounds like a horse in a trot. I half expected some perverse rendition of Erlkönig to follow. Not a good balancing of voices. Rhapsodizing like it's Chopin. Doesn't get the seductive scary atmosphere of the piece at all. Not entirely comfortable with the technical demands either. Again tellingly over-careful in some of the tough spots rather than daring to let loose. Rather heavy and "Germanic" in a way. Unidiomatic. Ending rather abrupt and not organic. 3

13. Very nice atmosphere and phrasing even though the ostinato pattern is rather approximate. Nicely long line leading up to the climaxes. Very nice balancing. Dares to go high risk in the fast runs. Very idiomatic. Good overall concept and structure. Not nearly as episodic as the first two. Holds together much, much better. Completely compelling interpretation. Would get higher marks if the ostinato were more intelligible and the touch a bit lighter and more nuanced. I can forgive the vocalizing. 8

14. Stunning control! Amazing phrasing, dynamic control and pedaling. Beautifully precise ostinato. Completely idiomatic. Gorgeous atmosphere and not just because of the newer sound. A tad bit too reticent here and there. Second half doesn't quote fulfill the promise of the first. This guy/gal also doesn't really dare to let it rip in the climaxes.  That costs points in an otherwise near perfect interpretation. 8

15 very very beautifully "sung" opening with another very finely articulated and balanced ostinato. Odd choice of staccato mars an otherwise excellent performance. Very good buildup to the climax. But overall not quite there. Doesn't quite hold together structurally.  7


As a performance 13 is my favorite as much as I am in awe with the pianism of 14. None of the others gets the piece conceptually down nearly as well as 13. Too bad for the sloppy ostinato. 11 doesn't belong in a comparison of top performances of this piece and 12 has no business even playing this repertoire.

[Madiel]

Right. Let me expand on my previous remark before reviewing the group of 5 recordings I've listened to.

I know Gaspard quite well, and Ondine most of all as I've learnt the piece.  I think Gaspard is an out-of-out masterpiece.  And any pianist who doesn't make me feel like it's a masterpiece while I'm listening is going to be in serious trouble. Only 2 out of these 5 pianists made me feel like I was listening to great music.

First thing: the tempo of this piece is Lent.  I know, that's the basic pulse, and the fact that Ravel can pack an enormous number of notes into that basic pulse means that it's never going to feel all that slow.  But by golly, it shouldn't feel like it's a massive rush either.  Read the text that goes with the piece. The English translation I have has words like enchanting, slumber, sad, tender, murmuring.

Secondly, this piece has a truly fantastic climax. I'm going to refer to it a lot so let me spell it out. There are 4 bars of ascent, with a crescendo from p to ff, and slowing down as it goes.  There are then 2 massive descending bars, heading down to mf (and then the descent continues from there, but the climax is over by then), which are marked 'un peu plus lent'.  I want those 6 bars to be absolutely thrilling - because I know they can be.

And then there's the coda.  Ravel's depiction of Ondine laughing and vanishing is one of the most brilliant bits of picture-painting in piano music. Don't muck it up.

Right, having said all that, my thoughts on the 5 pianists, from worst to best... I've put the timings in because they show how, for me, bad pianists rush Ondine off her feet.

Pianist 9 (5:18):  This is a live performance. I've come to the conclusion that the pianist was worried about being late to catch a bus after the concert. Or plane, it doesn't matter.  But the pace of this is insane.  The opening notes don't register as individual notes at all.  This Ondine isn't murmuring by a lake, she's skipping and she appears to live in a waterfall. Apparently Ravel wrote a scherzo.

The funny thing is that I don't hate it. I get lots of lovely washes of Ravel's wonderful harmonic colours. But that's pretty much all I get. No room for nuance.  The climax is a complete mess, with the descent actually being faster than the basic pulse, not slower. 5/10

Pianist 10 (6:03): Initially I liked this slightly better than 9. I can hear individual notes at the start. But then later on I sometimes liked it less, because it's so relentlessly mechanical. The ascent of the climax is a bit better, but then the descent is a rush again and robbed of its grandeur. Read the blooming score.  And then in part of the coda the tenor melody is completely lost. 5/10

Pianist 6 (6:21): We've slowed down just a fraction, now, or more to the point the music is given moments where it can breathe. However, the main sense I get from this performance is that it lacks poetry.  This pianist is at least aware that there should be poetry, but in general he/she doesn't quite know how to deliver it. The necessary smoothness isn't there. 6.5/10

Pianist 8 (6:38): And now, we have poetry. This is still quite fast in a sense, but now Ondine really does sound like she's singing.  It's quite a bright and clear song - this Ondine is arguably calling out "Listen! Listen!", not murmuring it.  But it works.

The ascent to the climax seems to have a fractional moment of clumsiness, but the pacing works pretty well. The coda is very well judged. On the whole this performance was quite satisfying. 8/10

Pianist 7 (7:25): If no.8 found the poetry, no.7 found the magic. The opening is whispered seduction - which when you read the poem is exactly what should be happening. The clarity of the treble in this performance is a total delight.

And the climax... The climax is superb. The lead-up to the climax is superb, the reason being that because the piece has been slow enough, there is somewhere to go.  There is a slight increase in pace, and a definite increase in intensity, in the 2 bars before the ascent with their tinkling descending notes.

My only criticisms here are (1): the energy perhaps drops a little too much between the climax and the coda, and (2) some of the important bass notes don't register as much as they should.  But otherwise this is a great performance from a pianist who is at the service of the music instead of trying to prove that he/she can get a lot of notes under the fingers. 9/10.

[MishaK]

Too many pianists take Ondine too freaking fast!

I have to completely and categorically disagree with you. The opening ostinato is 1/32nds. Even with the tempo marking "lent" this should be far from glacial. And the runs near the end are indicated as "rapide et brilliant". The reason there is almost a tradition of actually playing it too slow is that the opening ostinato has a murderously difficult pattern yet has to be played ppp and Ravel later asks for even "toujours ppp"! There are very few who can actually do it the way it's written. I once introduced a pianist friend to my favorite recording of this and he just asked me to play the opening over again because he was in disbelief at how well that particular pianist got that impossible combination of dynamic control and rhythmic accuracy down without sounding chiseled. People play it slowly because it's too damn hard a tempo.

[Madiel]

I have to completely and categorically disagree with you. The opening ostinato is 1/32nds. Even with the tempo marking "lent" this should be far from glacial. And the runs near the end are indicated as "rapide et brilliant". The reason there is almost a tradition of actually playing it too slow is that the opening ostinato has a murderously difficult pattern yet has to be played pp and Ravel later dials that further down to ppp, even "toujours ppp"! There are very few who can actually do it the way it's written. I once introduced a pianist friend to my favorite recording of this and he just asked me to play the opening over again because he was in disbelief at how well that particular pianist got that impossible combination of dynamic control and rhythmic accuracy down without sounding chiseled. People play it slowly because it's too damn hard a tempo.

I'm not asking for glacial, and I'm not talking about the runs at the end. The runs at the end are a completely different issue.

EDIT: The runs at the end are also quite a bit easier than the ostinato pattern.

[Madiel]

I'm listening to pianists 1 to 5 now, and the correlation between timing and enjoyment has been pretty well broken.

It turns out that pianist 7, whom I adored, is the slowest of the entire 20.  And pianist 9, who I didn't like much, is the fastest of the 20. So that certainly influenced my thoughts on timing.  But now I have pianist 2, who is second-slowest of the bunch but actually sounds much, much slower than pianist 7 did.

There's all the difference in the world between sense of pulse, sense of rubato, and actual stopwatch time.

[Brian]

I don't want to intrude too much on this fascinating discussion, but I'll say that pianist 2 is dividing opinion in a way which I (and the average Ravel "expert") could not have predicted.

[Brian]

As a reminder, I'd like to get round 1 "Ondine" out of the way within the next few days. Obviously if you need longer it's not a problem - but if you need something to do tonight, give a few of our Gaspard pianists a spin!

[madaboutmahler]

Hi Brian, sorry for taking so long with mine! Will hopefully have my vote here by this time tomorrow.

[TheGSMoeller]

I will definitely get my votes in by tonight. Thanks, Brian!

[Karl Henning]

As a reminder, I'd like to get round 1 "Ondine" out of the way within the next few days. Obviously if you need longer it's not a problem - but if you need something to do tonight, give a few of our Gaspard pianists a spin!

Will aim for Thursday evening.

[Beale]

I heard him play it last month.  His Scarbo is magnificent and malevolent.  I'm guessing you'll hear the same program I did, and if so, get ready for some extremely fine Berg and some almost inhumanly good Faure.  Hamelin's variations on Paganini's famous theme is a tour de force of virtuosity and quotations - too many to count, really.

Hey, you have escalated my expectations for this concert. Certainly will have some Faure and that Hamelin's variations, but no Berg. Plenty of Rachmaninoff and Debussy though.

Now back on topic of the Ravel.

I had the pleasure of sampling artists 16 to 20. Not knowing this piece really well I found the differences quite subtle, like splitting hair, and have resorted to using half points. Brian, I hope you don't mind.

Artist 16. The playing was a bit rushed and heavy handed, lacking that lightness of touch. Good build up to the climax though, and the ending was reasonably dramatic. 5/10

Artist 17. Very good sound helps with the impression and imaginary. Great techniques and the sound is dreamy from the start. The solitary part was ethereal, but would like ending to be even more surprising and dramatic. 8/10

Artist 18. Poorer sound quality robs it of the splashy water effects. Seems a little rushed but the structure was good. 6/10

Artist 19. The note playing is not as clean as artist 17, but somehow this is more communicative and engaging. The start has a good amount of mystery, while the rejection part is played with emotion. The letdown is that the watery atmosphere is not well sustained throughout. 7.5/10

Artist 20. Very good light touch right from the start. However I just don't get that sensation of sparkling water, dance of the mermaid, her seduction and coercion in the first half. The second half was better, great drama and dynamics. 6.5/10