Blind Comparison: Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit

[Karl Henning]

He really brought the Grieg concerto to life for me . . . .

[AnthonyAthletic]

He really brought the Grieg concerto to life for me . . . .

LOL

"Were doing Ravel now, Mr Preview...can't you see?"

[Todd]

First batch for Le Gibet:


13 – Slow and cold to open.  The tolling bells are good, but surrounding music feels too slow and lacks sufficient dynamic gradation.  (May be the MP3 sound/computer hurting here.)  Not ideally desolate, but close.  Score: 8.

14 – Richer sound.  Bells constant, with more pronounced playing otherwise.  Not desolate enough, seeming to create a warmer, more atmospheric soundworld.  Still, quite nice.  Score: 7.

15 – Slow, almost hypnotic, with strong chords and lovely melodies.  Generally very attractive playing with only minor hints of metal.  The ostinato seems to rise in volume a bit much at times, but otherwise very good.  Score: 7. 

17 – Haunting bells are these, and they serve as a perfect, steady, hypnotic underpinning for the fantastic melodies and chords.  Dynamics are superb.  Nicely varied tone.  Cold, desolate, and beautiful, all at once.  The slow tempo holds up fantastically well.  Score: 11.

19 – Less than ideal live sound hampers things, causing notes to blur, but steadiness of ostinato is impressive and precision of surrounding music pretty nice for the setting.  Nicely atmospheric.  Score: 8.

[Brian]

The mystery pianist is actually Sviatoslav Richter trying to escape from a sack.

http://www.youtube.com/v/DB_lKSNwZZM

Todd - hmm, when I sampled 19 it became one of my new favorites; now I'm going to have to listen to 17 (one of the handful of recordings that I haven't actually heard all the way through). The 11 made me laugh; I think I may actually score it provided this doesn't inspire a tidal wave of 11s.

[Todd]

I think I may actually score it provided this doesn't inspire a tidal wave of 11s.

Score it as a 10.  I had a Nigel Tufnel moment.

[Karl Henning]

Todd St-Hubbins . . . .

[MishaK]

Ok. Herewith my Gibet verdicts.

13. Very nicely dreary atmosphere at opening. The phrasing is somewhat mannered and suggests romantic pathos more than the inescapable doom of Ravel's landscape. Dynamic nuances and sonority control could be a bit better. Overall ends up being too pretty despite starting out well and ending well. 4

14. Wonderful sonority and atmosphere. Bell is very nicely constant, not too prominent but always audible even in the thick of things without the need to manipulate its volume. Marvelous control of texture and dynamics. Overall could project doom and desolation a bit more acutely, but this is still an excellent performance on every level. Ending is superb. 8.5

15. This performance is a bit schizophrenic. At first I thought this performer was taking an approach of accommodation and resignation to the inevitable, rather than despair and angst, but the more heavily accented chords towards the end of the first section suggest an attempt to make up for the deficit by overexaggerating accents. What then follows is entirely too laid back. Not bad otherwise. Just not coherent enough. 5

17. Nicely desolate opening. Very interesting voicing/texturing. Manages to make different registers sound like different instruments. Not sure some of the dynamic choices are entirely textually supported. But at any rate, this is a very organic whole despite the slower tempo and it avoids sounding pretty. Nicely long line. Wonderful ending.  9

19. This le gibet by Brahms! Dark and brooding. Not at all unappealing but unusual in its coloring. The bell is not always clearly and consistently voiced. Still an interesting, somewhat romanticized take. Nicely hopeless ending.  6

1. Well, unfairly, it's apparent that I know this recording and it's always been my benchmark for gibet and it maintains that status in this comparison. Absolutely supreme sonority control, phrasing and dynamics. The bell is so consistent and independent it could be a second pianist. Inevitable doom from the beginning that doesn't let up til the end. The chordal outbursts are just intense enough to suggest a lost soul rebelling against his fate, but not so loud as to suggest that he may actually prevail. Perfect, even if arguably a bit on the quick side. You just want to curl up and die at the end. 10

2. Generally decent but a bit too monochromatic. Despite a rather constant bell and not too slow tempo it just doesn't quite hang together. Maybe I'm too harsh because I listened to this right on the heels of 1 so the contrast is a bit unflattering to 2. Just not doom-laden enough. 4

3. Very slow. Opening evokes to me some deserted place baking in the midday sun. But not entirely unconvincing at this pace. Persistent enough not to disintegrate totally despite being slower than some who do disintegrate. A little monotonous in character throughout, which I suppose is not entirely wrong. Gives a quite appropriate mood but fails to really tell a story of anything that happens within that scenery. Still a nice and well controlled, somewhat understated performance.  6

7. Extreme dynamic range. Not sure that is necessary particularly when the bell still isn't perfectly even and audible. Bit too chiseled. Not a good legato or phrasing (and Ravel writes trés lié in a couple of places). Still a generally decent performance if not particularly interesting. 4

10. Atmosphere and voicing are excellent. Awfully similar interpretation to no.1 hmmm... ;-) much of the same comments apply. Sound quality not quite as good. Not quite as immediate and intense as 1 but still: 9

[Madiel]

Hmm...

Pianist 13: Is this a live recording? Not sure. There's some nice atmosphere here, however it doesn't really have the required sense of constant pace. There are quite a lot of little tempo changes. It's not nearly as bad as pianist 19 but it still doesn't really fit.  I think you can get away with very subtle moments of emphasis, but not with making entire phrases feeling faster than their neighbours. 5.5/10

Pianist 14: It's fast-paced. And at first I thought that was going to work. It felt like a funeral march, which is not the normal sense but it was initially working. Then we hit the triplets. The first of which wasn't very triplet-like. And at that moment, I was suddenly listening to a habanera (Debussy's La soirée dans Grenade came to mind). Once I got that sense I couldn't shake it. On a later listen, I heard it from the beginning. Oh dear.  So much else about this version is quite good, but the dance-like feeling kills it for me. 4.5/10

Pianist 15: A couple of other pianists lack tempo control. This one lacks a bit of dynamic control. A couple of melody entries on the first page are far too loud. It's a good performance, but the over-excitability stops it from being a great one. 6.5/10

Pianist 17: This one is slow. And to be honest it's a bit too slow for my liking. But the benefit is the excellent control. It's bleak, it's steady and the mood doesn't get broken anywhere, not even when the bell dynamics are pushed up.  The best of this group. 7.5/10

Pianist 19: Okay, yes, it seems to be a live recording... Todd referred to the impressive steadiness of the ostinati.  In dynamics perhaps, but not in tempo.  I found the constant push and pull of this version utterly distracting. At least in the first section. I didn't develop any sense of pulse whatsoever. 3/10

[Madiel]

Listening to the other half now, and it looks like I'm going to largely reverse the previous scores... 

Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult. But I'd say I'm looking for completely different things in this piece to some people.

[Madiel]

Pianist 1: Yes, the control of the bell is excellent. Yes, the control of the dynamics in general is quite good (although perhaps a little too loud and forceful in some spots, a common enough issue).  But this performance also has something it shouldn't: momentum. I'm sure someone could argue with me that the crotchet pulse of this fits within the definition of 'lent' on a metronome. Perhaps even 'tres lent'.  But this isn't mathematics, this is music.  And I don't want the hanged carcass of a man to sound like it's going somewhere. This is fairly well played music but it isn't evocative of the thing that it's supposed to evoke. 5/10

Pianist 2: This one grew on me a little bit over several listens. I still think that there is a bit too much colour and emphasis at certain moments, but having re-compared it to a couple of other pianists it came out favourably. I think it's generally a solid performance, and the flaws that exist are not ones that pull me out of the music. One of the big things in its favour is the pacing, which is convincing. 7/10

Pianist 3: It's funny how your experience of a piece can change. When this one started, I felt that it had some very nice colouring but that the 'bell' was a bit choppy and unsteady.  But here's the thing: this was the only one of the performances that drew me in and made me listen more as it went on.  For me this is a genuinely 'magnetic' performance. I think the dynamic control is exemplary, and while the bell isn't perfect to begin with I wanted to keep hearing its slight variations.  One thing I particularly love is a couple of spots in the last part of the piece, where I can clearly hear the bell ring out in the lower octave without the upper - and sure enough, those are exactly the spots where the score shows me the usually dominant upper octave is silent.  This may well be present in other performances, but this was the performance which made my ears attend to and enjoy every detail. And the extraordinary thing is, each time I tried relistening immediately, the unsteady bell on the first page scarcely bothered me. 8.5/10

Pianist 7: Some very nice playing, but I feel it's all just a little too bit colourful for this piece at times. There is too much dynamic emphasis and the bell gets rather hidden.  It's rather ironic that my only criticism of this pianist's Ondine was a lack of bass notes, because here some of the bass notes come crashing in unnecessarily. 6.5/10

Pianist 10: I have quite mixed feelings about this one, and may keep listening to it... My problem with it is that it has a slightly hard edge.  I honestly don't know how much of that impression is due to sound recording quality, how much to pacing (it's perhaps fractionally on the fast side, but not so fast as to be disruptive), how much to dynamics (which again could be affected by the recording, but there's a big crashing 'mp' on the last page that is all the pianist).  At the moment, I like it but I don't love it. 6.5/10

[Madiel]

A little monotonous in character throughout, which I suppose is not entirely wrong. Gives a quite appropriate mood but fails to really tell a story of anything that happens within that scenery.

This is an example of what I mean by looking for different things. Anything that happens in the scenery? According to the poem inscribed at the start, nothing happens but the tolling of the bell. I recently read a claim that Ravel required monotony and was very unhappy with Ricardo Viñes for not supplying it: http://www.musicalifeiten.nl/vergelijkende-discografieen/r/ravel-gaspard-de-la-nuit-engels.html (which has an extensive review of various recordings by name - trying to ignore the details here!)

Similarly, you applaud Pianist 1 for providing 'inevitable doom'.  The man on the gallows is already dead.  His doom arrived before the first note was struck.

[MishaK]

This is an example of what I mean by looking for different things. Anything that happens in the scenery? According to the poem inscribed at the start, nothing happens but the tolling of the bell. I recently read a claim that Ravel required monotony and was very unhappy with Ricardo Viñes for not supplying it: http://www.musicalifeiten.nl/vergelijkende-discografieen/r/ravel-gaspard-de-la-nuit-engels.html (which has an extensive review of various recordings by name - trying to ignore the details here!)

Similarly, you applaud Pianist 1 for providing 'inevitable doom'.  The man on the gallows is already dead.  His doom arrived before the first note was struck.

Your last sentence is the story I speak of. You can't describe that musically, if you lack content from beginning to end. Montony is not the absence of anything. Secondly, I am not a believer in the sanctity of authorial intent, as it cannot ever be reliably ascretained beyond the mere open-ended notes on the sheet, and because the work and its myriad interpretive possibilities are always greater than the author himself or his momentarily expressed ephemeral intent. Even so, if Ravel had wanted absolute monotony, there would have been no difference in dynamic notations throughout. And that clearly isn't the case. Unlike you, I don't necessarily have a pre-formed expectation of what I want to hear from the piece (which is in any case prejudice based on the first formative interpretation you encountered). I am open to any pianist providing an alternative interpretation I had not previously contemplated, as long as it is compelling, logically sustainable from what is in the score, and coherently executed. As you can see from my comments, there were several that surprised me positively in that regard.

[AnthonyAthletic]

#01. This does exactly what it says on the tin, a desolate lone corpse draped from the gibet, bell tolling ominously throughout setting up a scene of intense tension.  The atmosphere created by this pianist (no idea who it is) is breathtaking.  The bell never wavers from your thoughts and the dispair for me as a listener is full on.  For that extra 0.5, all it needed was Henry Fonda walking slowly toward, in silhouette.  (9.5)

#02. The pace of this pianist rather spoiled the listening for me, I found it too fast and withdrawn.  Nothing to write home about with the tolling of the bell and fundimentally it did not set up the scene as pianist 01 did.  Maybe its just me, but I honestly thought I could hear the bell stopping when the notes crossed over into the volumous parts? Certainly the bell became less prominent, which sort of lost it for me. (5.5)

#03. Submerged tolling of the bell, whereas I like to hear it promenent. Not a bad job at creating the scene, was a touch drab in places which was a good thing as the pace of the movement enhanced the detail.  I wouldn't write this one off but in comparison to #1 it falls short.  Much more enjoyable than #2 (7.0)

#07. I really enjoyed the flow of this pianist, but it was like listening to something akin to La Cathédrale Engloutie; tolling bell distant, too quiet but with joyful right hand tinklings, and not enough umpf coming from the left hand.  Not stressful enough, and dare I say not setting a scene of a rotting corpse on the gallows with a far off town, in the background where surely, nothing good may come from....(4.0)

#10. All a matter of taste but this is second best of this group, IMHO. Once again I enjoyed a prominent bell (the melody repeating is quite distinctive and pretty much constant by comparison), never ending always tolling away and never overlapped audibly from the crossing over notes.  This is one which grew on me after several listens, perhaps an older recording as the sound is not as good as the other entrants, but the performance is of a high standard. A very rewarding...(8.5)

01 - (9.5)
02 - (5.5)
03 - (7.0)
07 - (4.0)
10 - (8.5)

[Beale]

This is an example of what I mean by looking for different things. Anything that happens in the scenery? According to the poem inscribed at the start, nothing happens but the tolling of the bell. I recently read a claim that Ravel required monotony and was very unhappy with Ricardo Viñes for not supplying it: http://www.musicalifeiten.nl/vergelijkende-discografieen/r/ravel-gaspard-de-la-nuit-engels.html (which has an extensive review of various recordings by name - trying to ignore the details here!)

Similarly, you applaud Pianist 1 for providing 'inevitable doom'.  The man on the gallows is already dead.  His doom arrived before the first note was struck.

I am approaching the pieces now in a manner similar to you. While I think of the person as being alive at the very beginning, he has resigned to death and has pretty much given up the fight. So this piece is like a transition from almost no-life to definite death. From this perspective monotony makes sense. On the other hand how much dynamics should one expect? If there are no struggles, only a gradual slippage to death, then I found it hard to reconcile a lot of dynamics, drama or tensions. Maybe someone could enlightenment me on this.

[Brian]

Here's the original poem.

By the way, I'm fascinated by this discussion. I'd for a long time valued some variety and "narrative" in this movement, but now am starting to feel persuaded by the opposite argument - that this is a solitary image which lasts, haunts, by its monotony. Anyway, it's clear that our pianists often feel very differently about how to approach this work.

[Brian]

Planning to wrap this round this weekend. 

[Todd]

1 - Quick, taut, "hard" sounding.  Cold and merciless.  Score: 7

2 - The opposite of #1.  Very slow.  Perhaps too luxurious.  (Nah.)  The view is one of the desert and the dead dude in the failing light after a day slogging through the heat.  It takes some skill to play something so slow and still keep the musical line.  It's easy to hear why this one can divide opinion strongly.  MP3 seems to flatten dynamics a bit.  Score: 10

3 - Slow, and simultaneously sumptuous and aloof to the point of being cold.  Quite precise playing it seems to me.  Score: 7

7 - Another slow one.  Similar to #3, but strikes me as smoother, more beautiful.  Score: 9

10 - Cool, nicely paced, straight forward approach.  No fussiness.  Were only the sound better. Score: 9

[DavidRoss]

Thanks, Brian, for letting me join in for this second round. I had time to listen once through all 10 samples of the gibbet.  My notes and points awarded on scale 1-10:

1 Sharp, ringing tones, metronomic, overdramatic dynamics but overall effect soporific -- 4

2 Very slow, poorly miked (sound distant and muffled), self-conscious and even snoozier than 1 -- 3

3 Slow, very nicely nuanced tone and articulation, I hear the wind and the sun and the passage of time -- 10

7 Liquid tones, sounds like Debussy's Cathedral, emptiness, space, nice sense of distance for tolling bell, just a tad much dynamic drama -- 8

10 Very full tones, more dramatic than 3 or 7 but it works, not too excessive in context -- 7

13 Lovely full bodied ringing tones, this about the piano as much as the music, I like the hesitations, sensitive rubato, understated drama , even though I prefer the "dry" desert of 3 to this "wet" one -- 9

14 Gosh, what clean and beautiful recorded piano sound! More dramatic than 13, somewhat less thoughtful and sensitive, perhaps a bit fast -- 8

15 Too heavy-handed for my taste -- 3

17 Beautiful opening with distant tolling bell, like a cinema long shot through an open window looking over an endless horizon with a faint breeze gently stirring the curtains at the borders of the frame, similar enough to 13 to also merit a "9"

19 Muddy, occasionally a touch clumsy, but what dynamic & rhythmic sensitivity! Bugs! -- 8

[BobsterLobster]

I'm interested- sign me up please!

[mc ukrneal]

1 - merciless.  Score: 7

Strange - I read that and I think this is a version to listen to. It SHOULD be merciless. Shouldn't it?

2 - The opposite of #1.  Very slow.  Perhaps too luxurious.  (Nah.)  The view is one of the desert and the dead dude in the failing light after a day slogging through the heat.  It takes some skill to play something so slow and still keep the musical line.  It's easy to hear why this one can divide opinion strongly.  MP3 seems to flatten dynamics a bit.  Score: 10

You are right that it can be more skillful to play something slower, but I think the problem for me was precisely that he or she did not keep the musical line. Did the fact that the bell is not always audible bother you?

1 Sharp, ringing tones, metronomic, overdramatic dynamics but overall effect soporific -- 4

I am a bit confused how it can be sharp, ringing, and overdramatic but still sleep inducing. Would you be able to expand on what you mean? The comments are seemingly contradictory.