Alternative news sources

[Parsifal]

It's really the group of videos we've all seen. I just think all the people of interest have been id'd by, I guess, people who sit around all day in the folks's basements with banks of geekgear? search something like "boston emergency management acting director at scene of bombing" or something like that.

There's a video which has convinced you that the Boston Marathon Bombing was a conspiracy/fake but you are not sure what video it is?  Astonishing that no matter how disorganized your thought processes are, there is room for further disintegration!

There is enough disturbing stuff that the government is doing that there is no need to be distracted by these delusional accusations.

[Todd]

There is enough disturbing stuff that the government is doing that there is no need to be distracted by these delusional accusations.

Exhibit 17,425 (a)(iv)

[Sean]

Good stuff Todd. Snowdon is a bit of a distraction though- he didn't reveal anything not already known...

American Fascism, were such a thing to ever come into existence, would take on a new form not yet tried, and I think the closer model would be Italy rather than Germany, though the relationship between corporate interests and the government would probably be reversed.  It would also be sophisticated in that it would allow for political "competition" between at least two parties that espouse policies that sound different on the surface but really are just different in degree and not kind.  American Fascism would also be characterized by a submissive press, one which advocates imprisoning whistleblowers, and one that more or less focuses on personalities and wedge issues rather than substantive policy issues.  In such a system, the most popular non-mainstream press outlets would simply be more militant and nationalistic.  American Fascism would also be characterized by perpetual, low-level warfare, complete with unstinting devotion to veterans, with the primary goals of securing energy resources and maintaining unfettered trade for the largest domestic and transnational corporations so as to placate the shallow consumerism so beloved by the populace.  Thank goodness no such thing could ever happen.

[Sean]

MishaK

Video or no video, simple question: why fake a plane crash in the middle of nowhere when you can already accomplish the supposed goals of the conspiracy by destroying the WTC? Why would anyone bother with that?

Shortly before Flight 93 crashed it had turned north. It was waiting for the two towers to fall to have a clear view of Building 7- hit it near the top as with the others, let the explosives do the rest and people can argue about it just nicely.

[Sean]

Webster Tarpley on form here- click on the first one, summarizing the Syrian war and Wall Street corruption.

http://tarpley.net/

[snyprrr]

There's a video which has convinced you that the Boston Marathon Bombing was a conspiracy/fake but you are not sure what video it is?  Astonishing that no matter how disorganized your thought processes are, there is room for further disintegration!

There is enough disturbing stuff that the government is doing that there is no need to be distracted by these delusional accusations.

Thank you,... I think

[MishaK]

MishaK

Shortly before Flight 93 crashed it had turned north. It was waiting for the two towers to fall to have a clear view of Building 7- hit it near the top as with the others, let the explosives do the rest and people can argue about it just nicely.

Haha! That's hilarious! So what happened? Why did it fail in its mission? I though there were no planes and these were just missiles/holograms as per your theory? What crashed in Shanksville? Do you even realize that even without WTC 1 & 2 in the way (and ignoring for the moment that you wouldn't have a "clear view" due to the plume of smoke from WTC 1& 2), it would be very hard to hit WTC 7 due to other surrounding taller buildings, like Deutsche Bank, Millennium Hilton, Woolworth, World Financial Center etc.?

[Parsifal]

MishaK

Shortly before Flight 93 crashed it had turned north. It was waiting for the two towers to fall to have a clear view of Building 7- hit it near the top as with the others, let the explosives do the rest and people can argue about it just nicely.

That makes sense to you?  The collapse of WTC I and II was behind schedule, so they had to ditch the third plane and decided to simply blow up WTC7 without bothering to hit it with a plane?  How did the collapse of the WTC get behind schedule anyway, it it was a simple demolition job?

[ibanezmonster]

American Fascism, were such a thing to ever come into existence, would take on a new form not yet tried, and I think the closer model would be Italy rather than Germany, though the relationship between corporate interests and the government would probably be reversed.  It would also be sophisticated in that it would allow for political "competition" between at least two parties that espouse policies that sound different on the surface but really are just different in degree and not kind.  American Fascism would also be characterized by a submissive press, one which advocates imprisoning whistleblowers, and one that more or less focuses on personalities and wedge issues rather than substantive policy issues.  In such a system, the most popular non-mainstream press outlets would simply be more militant and nationalistic.  American Fascism would also be characterized by perpetual, low-level warfare, complete with unstinting devotion to veterans, with the primary goals of securing energy resources and maintaining unfettered trade for the largest domestic and transnational corporations so as to placate the shallow consumerism so beloved by the populace.  Thank goodness no such thing could ever happen.

Sarcasm much? 

[Sean]

MishaK & Scarpia Flight 93 was shot down either because someone not in the know saw through the deliberate confusion of simulated and real 'terrorist' games, or something went wrong with the Black Hawk guidance system and it was best to get rid of it lest there were any survivors or revealing black boxes to be found.

None of the four black boxes officially were found of course, as unique and smelly a situation as three steel frame skyscrapers collapsing in three different ways on the same morning in the same place, all assuredly due to office fires and burning curtains and such.

Why do people pay all this money to expert demolition teams? All you need to do to demolish a colossal steel and concrete structure neatly into its own footprint is light a smoky fire way up on one of the floors, and hey there you go, down it comes!! Maybe MishaK can patent the idea and make lots of money.

Indeed there was no crater or anything much to suggest the plane crashed in Shanksville, and the Hollywood movie was another heap of propaganda almost as quickly put together as the new Building 7, and instead the debris was spread over a large area.

Big big problem for Building 7 and a decision had to be made to pull it, as Silverstein said. It looks like they were waiting for nightfall but the pitiful fires had gone out so...

The no-plane theory is just agent provocateur stuff and no one takes it seriously; it's unlikely a plane hit the Pentagon though- the visual evidence is overwhelmingly against it. There's a Youtube compilation video of about 40 films of the second tower impact...

A few Richard Gage videos here
http://blip.tv/search?q=richard+gage

[Sean]

Architect Richard Gage lecture

http://blip.tv/our-world-in-depth/architects-and-engineers-for-9-11-truth-part-1-5461011

[MishaK]

MishaK & Scarpia Flight 93 was shot down either because someone not in the know saw through the deliberate confusion of simulated and real 'terrorist' games, or something went wrong with the Black Hawk guidance system and it was best to get rid of it lest there were any survivors or revealing black boxes to be found.

Haha. You're getting better and better. So now there were real planes with real people, but they were remote controlled? And someone "not in the know" screwed it up?! Are we supposed to take this half seriously? Again, you ignore counterarguments routinely. You just don't have a "clear shot" at WTC 7 even with 1 and 2 out of the way. Btw, also, UA 93 at no point in its flight path "turned north". That's just bunk.

None of the four black boxes officially were found of course,

Umm... wrong: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/penn.attack/ The notion of "four" black boxes is also new to me. There are two on a commercial aircraft and neither one is actually black.

Also, why should there be no flight data recorders? Even if a remote control is doing the inputs, the data on the FDRs would be no different and in any case we know the flightpath from radar, so what mystery would the FDR hold that should be kept secret?

as unique and smelly a situation as three steel frame skyscrapers collapsing in three different ways on the same morning in the same place, all assuredly due to office fires and burning curtains and such.

Why do people pay all this money to expert demolition teams? All you need to do to demolish a colossal steel and concrete structure neatly into its own footprint is light a smoky fire way up on one of the floors, and hey there you go, down it comes!! Maybe MishaK can patent the idea and make lots of money.

You're exceptionally resistent to learning. I think I'm about ready to throw in the towel, as apparently all of your grade school teachers prematurely did long ago, which is why you turned out the way you did.

Let's get this clear once and for all: NONE of the WTC buildings collapsed "neatly into its own footprint", OK? None! The two towers took out the Marriott Hotel (a.k.a. WTC 3, St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, WTC 4, 5 & 6 (an office complex with a large shopping mall and transportation hub), plus they cause severe damage to WTC 7, World Financial Center, the Millennium Hilton, Deutsche Bank, and several others. The sheer size of the WTC might make it look to a bonehead with religious-conspiracy-theorist myopia that it collapsed "neatly into its own footprint". But no professional demolition expert would ever permit his name to be attached to such a completely botched "controlled demolition" that destroyed so many structures around it!

Indeed there was no crater or anything much to suggest the plane crashed in Shanksville, and the Hollywood movie was another heap of propaganda almost as quickly put together as the new Building 7, and instead the debris was spread over a large area.

The no-plane theory is just agent provocateur stuff and no one takes it seriously; it's unlikely a plane hit the Pentagon though- the visual evidence is overwhelmingly against it. There's a Youtube compilation video of about 40 films of the second tower impact...

You know you contradict yourself here, right? Was there a plane at Shanksville or no? Be careful. Because if you say yes, then the crater was made by a plane. If you say no, then your whole WTC 7 theory goes poof. (Not that you would necessarily notice either way) 

[Karl Henning]

He doesn't feel that he needs a coherent narrative; much easier just to make a game of denying facts.

[Florestan]

MishaK, don't you have a kid to raise? (i.e, anything better to do than refuting Sean's theories?) 

[MishaK]

MishaK, don't you have a kid to raise? (i.e, anything better to do than refuting Sean's theories?) 

Not when I'm at work.  I don't bother with this board when my son is around.

[Sean]

MishaK

Well either the commercial planes were just commandeered by remote control or were swapped with others...

About just what downtown Manhattan high rise buildings there are I don't quite know but there couldn't have been many between 7 and the sea...

There's a nice article on the net somewhere about the flight path but maybe get you the link some other time...

I know the fluorescent black boxes are a misnomer... If the planes were taken under remote control though it'd be rather interesting to hear what the pilots had to say about that, and about the fact there were no hijackings...

There wasn't much of a crater at Shanksville, certainly no obvious tail sections, wing sections, engines etc- all very strange.

One of us is doing this, and it's one thing I'm not mad enough for...

[Sean]

Building 7 into its footprint-

[MishaK]

Well either the commercial planes were just commandeered by remote control or were swapped with others...

Which means what? Were there planes or were there no planes? If a plane was meant to crash into WTC 7 then there must have been a plane and then the crater in Shanksville was made by a plane. Can you at least give us a coherent theory of this part of the plot, if not the whole conspiracy (which I have asked for repeatedly, but which you have steadfastly avoided)?

About just what downtown Manhattan high rise buildings there are I don't quite know but there couldn't have been many between 7 and the sea...

Your knowledge of geography is even more challenged than I thought. Manhattan is on the Hudson and the East Rivers. No sea at all. If you mean the Hudson, then World Financial Center, Deutsche Bank (Bankers Trust), Verizon and Travellers buildings would be in your way, among others. WTC7 was not exceptionally tall compared to its neighbors.

I know the fluorescent black boxes are a misnomer... If the planes were taken under remote control though it'd be rather interesting to hear what the pilots had to say about that, and about the fact there were no hijackings...

If you're going to all these bizarre lengths that your conspiracy theory implies, it would not have been an additional complication to just plant a recording for playback or simply plant a fake CVR. I note that you fail to acknowledge the falseness of your prior claim that the boxes were never found, but instead obfuscate in your usual style by sidestepping the issue entirely.

There of course was a CVR, which was recovered, and it recorded this:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/04/12/flight93.transcript.pdf

There wasn't much of a crater at Shanksville, certainly no obvious tail sections, wing sections, engines etc- all very strange.

right... unless of course you just refuse to understand the difference between high speed crashes and low speed crashes and unless you refuse to look at the evidence:

[Sean]

There were indeed planes...

Flight 93 was shot down when it wasn't doing what it was supposed to, whatever that was; Rumsfeld also hinted that it was shot down. As for further evidence I'm afraid I can only refer to the relevant documentaries...

I hadn't seen the 93 spoken transcript before but I've heard lines from it analysed; the WTC black boxes weren't recovered, I know that much.

Don't know about Flight 77 that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon either. However the claim is that despite the fire vaporizing its twin titanium engines, so there are no marks at all on the walls where they should have hit, there were still several dozen passenger remains whose body tissue could be identified.

So if you believe that there are more smoke and mirrors than either of us know...

[MishaK]

There were indeed planes...

Good! We're making progress. The last time we were discussing this matter, IIRC, you insisted that there were no planes at all, just holograms. Gets us back to the question of why use planes at all, if you're going to blow up the buildings anyway? Also: how did Flight 93 stop doing what it was supposed to?

Don't know about Flight 77 that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon either.

The CVR was, shall we say, a bit mangled from the impact and the fire and thus unreadable:



Would have been the same with the two WTC aircraft had they ever been found in the rubble. Again, if there was a conspiracy, it would have been fantastically easy to plant a prerecorded CVR that conveniently contained the dialogue you want it to contain. Makes no sense to pretend that they had been destroyed. Compared to the complexity of the rest of the alleged conspiracy, planting a fake CVR would have been far and away the easiest part.

However the claim is that despite the fire vaporizing its twin titanium engines, so there are no marks at all on the walls where they should have hit, there were still several dozen passenger remains whose body tissue could be identified.

This is still complete nonsense. The "engines" aren't titanium, some parts of it are and the rest is designed to more or less shred itself. Plenty of recognizable and easily identifiable parts of the Rolls-Royce RB211 engines of the AA 757-223 were found at the Pentagon.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

This might help you understand as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDbo1hyXsuQ