Discrimination in performance halls

[Brian]

From another thread:

i wonder if it would be possible in this day and age for a fat, ugly, but supremely talented young woman to have a career as a classical recording artist...

Everyone in the opera world seems to be expected to gain bulk and put on four inches of makeup. But what about orchestral soloists? There does seem to be a bias against obese pianists across all demographics; the only one I can remember seeing in concert is the oceanic Alexander Markovich, who rested his elbows on his stomach. I can't recall seeing an obese violinist of any sex give a solo; not sure why; maybe all that standing up all the time?

Of course the original question asked about recording artists. But there are now many labels (Naxos, say) that don't use artist photos as marketing. I think that was probably less common in the days when Martha Argerich became the new sensation.

Final thought: when I was at Rice a few years ago, there was widespread agreement that the music majors were the most attractive students on campus. Just a ton of beautiful people in the music school, relative to, say, the engineers. I only knew one obese person there, and he was a theorist. It's possible that, since classical music professionals come from families that are on average wealthier and better-educated, they're also slightly less likely than the average person to be "fat and ugly."

Having said that...

[Sergeant Rock]

Now we know why Jochanaan preferred execution.

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Is that . . . Tony Curtis?

[Opus106]

I can't recall seeing an obese violinist of any sex give a solo; not sure why; maybe all that standing up all the time?

I'd guess the stamina required to be a soloist (or even a sitting-all-the-time orchestra player) will prevent one from becoming obese. To look at it another way, it's a 'natural selection' of sorts: obese persons don't (can't?) become successful violinists.

[Wakefield]

I'd guess the stamina required to be a soloist (or even a sitting-all-the-time orchestra player) will prevent one from becoming obese. To look at it another way, it's a 'natural selection' of sorts: obese persons don't (can't?) become successful violinists.

This guy wasn't bad at all. 

[Opus106]

A certain amount of excess fat, yes, but obese? I'm not so sure. Moreover, he probably wasn't like this all his life. There's a difference between an obese person trying to become a successful violinist and a successful violinist becoming obese later in life.

[Parsifal]

Not obese or particularly unattractive, but no evidence that anything other than musical talent is at work here:

[Wakefield]

A certain amount of excess fat, yes, but obese? I'm not so sure. Moreover, he probably wasn't like this all his life. There's a difference between an obese person trying to become a successful violinist and a successful violinist becoming obese later in life.

I probably have some difficulties to follow this kind of reasoning. I thought this thread was about the current possibilities of "commercial" success of fat people as violinists and not about the natural aptitude of fat people to become successful violinists.

[Todd]

Final thought: when I was at Rice a few years ago, there was widespread agreement that the music majors were the most attractive students on campus.

I look forward to the day when classical music is primarily practiced by hotties.  As it is now, most classical musicians strike me as more or less ordinary looking.  And even a lot of singers are less hefty than in days past, but real lookers are still rare.  Marketing types, are, of course, keen to capitalize on attractive musicians, and make them prettier through various techniques, all to increase album and ticket sales.  Why, even the local orchestra started featuring action and glamour shots of the very attractive cellist they brought in a few years ago.

[Opus106]

I thought this thread was about the current possibilities of "commercial" success of fat people as violinists and not about the natural aptitude of fat people to become successful violinists.

I was replying to a particular comment made by Brian, viz:

But what about orchestral soloists? There does seem to be a bias against obese pianists across all demographics; the only one I can remember seeing in concert is the oceanic Alexander Markovich, who rested his elbows on his stomach. I can't recall seeing an obese violinist of any sex give a solo; not sure why; maybe all that standing up all the time?

(emphasis mine)

which I took in the most general sense possible, since he was also taking into consideration live performances he had seen.

[prémont]

I'd guess the stamina required to be a soloist (or even a sitting-all-the-time orchestra player) will prevent one from becoming obese. To look at it another way, it's a 'natural selection' of sorts: obese persons don't (can't?) become successful violinists.

Well, Reinhold Barchet died from obesity related heart disease aged 42. He was an almost hyperactive concert- and recording violinist in the 1950es and 1960es.

[Opus106]

Well, Reinhold Barchet died from obesity related heart disease aged 42. He was an almost hyperactive concert- and recording violinist in the 1950es and 1960es.

That's a new name, to me.

(And I can hardly find a picture of him in the 'web to judge his commercial viability. )

[Wakefield]

Well, Reinhold Barchet died from obesity related heart disease aged 42. He was an almost hyperactive concert- and recording violinist in the 1950es and 1960es.

Was he a part of the Early HIP movement at some extent? This Vivaldi sounds quite good for 1952:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdPU4-FEyy4

[prémont]

This guy wasn't bad at all. 

I have seen him in the real life (around 1968) playing Brahms´concerto. I do not think he was that obese - at least at that time.

[Wakefield]

I have seen him in the real life (around 1968) playing Brahms´concerto.

You were lucky. He recorded some of the best versions of that violin concerto that I have listened to. 

[prémont]

Was he a part of the Early HIP movement at some extent? This Vivaldi sounds quite good for 1952:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdPU4-FEyy4

Yes a pioneering recording for its time, and which was tremendous instrumental in stimulating my interest for Vivaldi.

I would not BTW call neither him nor Rolf Reinhardt more than preauthentic.

Barchet was a co-founder of the Stuttgarter Kammerorkester around 1947 and was - as far as I can hear - very influential as to their performing style.

[Wakefield]

Yes a pioneering recording for its time, and which was tremendous instrumental in stimulating my interest for Vivaldi.

I would not BTW call neither him nor Rolf Reinhardt more than preauthentic.

Barchet was a co-founder of the Stuttgarter Kammerorkester around 1947 and was - as far as I can hear - very influential as to their performing style.

No doubt. This performance style wasn't the everyday bread in those times.

[prémont]

That's a new name, to me.

(And I can hardly find a picture of him in the 'web to judge his commercial viability. )

He recorded very much, f.i. three versions of the Four Seasons, the complete Vivaldi op. 3, 4, 8 & 9, he participated in four recordings of the Brandenburg concertos and his quartet recorded the complete Mozart quartets. He recorded mostly for Vox with Rolf Reinhardt and Kurt Redel, but also for Decca with Karl Münchinger, Erato with Kurt Redel and Robert Veyron-Lacroix, Eurodisc with Friedrich Tilegant and Telefunken with Kurt Redel. His music making has got an irresistible freshness, even if it wasn´t up to our ideas of HIP.

[Opus106]

He recorded very much,

That was quite apparent. While I couldn't find a photo of him, Google returned lots of images of LP covers, and much of it of Baroque rep.

His music making has got an irresistible freshness, even if it wasn´t up to our ideas of HIP.

Based on the sample I listened to, I'd agree.

[jochanaan]

Back to the original thread topic: Musical training involves a lot of body work and bodily-awareness training.  Yes, there are some obese players, but even they are very much aware of their own bodies.  We have to be.  It's hard work doing all that blowing or bowing and fingering! *huff, puff*