Author Topic: Vaughan Williams's Veranda  (Read 627477 times)

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Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4380 on: January 18, 2020, 12:31:36 AM »
You're making me depressed, but you're right that this is part of life. Sometimes I wish novelty would not play such a big role in the appreciation and enjoyment that I derive from music. It would certainly save me a lot of money.

I just got this Decca 2CD the other day for $1 at a local record store:



I love the Vaughan Williams performances. Sir Neville and the Academy are perfect for this music.

What a great bargain!  Not only brilliant music but also a big shout out for Neville Marriner and his AoSMF.  YES they were so ubiquitous at one point that it is very easy looking back and thinking they recorded too much and it all becomes a bit formulaic but in fact they were brilliant musicians at the top of their game served by the best engineers and producers.  Marriner was a collaborative music maker who got the best people around him - the player lists of the AoSMF of the time really are a whos-whos of British orchestral players string players especially - and then let them make music with usually sparkling results.  Of course in all this repertoire there are other versions led/conducted by a more interventionist conductor that led to more individual results but I hear a joy and engagement in Marriner (and his players!) versions that are the equal of most and better than many.  Iona Brown's "Lark Ascending" here is a case in point - not my absolute favourite but very very good indeed......

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4381 on: January 19, 2020, 02:34:31 AM »
It is like saying goodbye to an old friend and is upsetting. Happened to me this week listening to Prokofiev's 5th Symphony. Sadly the magic has gone, a favourite which I have listened many times - too many. The one consolation is that there are a constant supply of other and unheard works to explore.
OT
I've had a similar experiences with Prokofiev's 5th Symphony Lol; having said that it's coupled with the new recording of Weinberg's 5th Symphony so I will give it another listen to. Nos 3 and 6 still mean a lot to me however.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4382 on: January 20, 2020, 12:49:13 AM »
OT
I've had a similar experiences with Prokofiev's 5th Symphony Lol; having said that it's coupled with the new recording of Weinberg's 5th Symphony so I will give it another listen to. Nos 3 and 6 still mean a lot to me however.

Not by any means his highest rated but I also like the 7th a lot, Jeffrey. The big tune in the first movement is marvellous.

You mention Weinberg (symphonies on my to do list, after you know who) he is full of surprises. Listening to his 1st Violin Sonata, I was expecting a tough and sinewy work instead in the first movement I heard music akin to Mozart. A most pleasant surprise.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4383 on: January 20, 2020, 01:07:41 AM »
Not by any means his highest rated but I also like the 7th a lot, Jeffrey. The big tune in the first movement is marvellous.

You mention Weinberg (symphonies on my to do list, after you know who) he is full of surprises. Listening to his 1st Violin Sonata, I was expecting a tough and sinewy work instead in the first movement I heard music akin to Mozart. A most pleasant surprise.
I especially like symphonies 1,3,5 and 6 of those I know (5 is his masterpiece IMO) plus the Piano Quintet. He is a most interesting composer. I recently bought Symphony 21 but haven't got round to it yet.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4384 on: January 20, 2020, 03:50:44 AM »
I especially like symphonies 1,3,5 and 6 of those I know (5 is his masterpiece IMO) plus the Piano Quintet. He is a most interesting composer. I recently bought Symphony 21 but haven't got round to it yet.

Many thanks! #veryhelpful
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4385 on: February 05, 2020, 11:06:51 AM »
[copied from the Listening thread, sorry!]

Playing the new Brabbins RVW 'A Pastoral' in order to compare it with the 2014 Sir Mark Elder version (Hallé). Find it very convincing, thus far, one of the most mystic readings ever (much of it conceived in and around the trenches of Northern France during WWI, there's almost no way to conceive the horror behind the notes, but mysticism certainly one of the better approaches:

To make things worse - for my reputation, if any  ;D - cannot but confirm that I find Brabbins performance of Symphony No. 4 very good too.

No, it isn't as bitter and harsh as the composer's own, conducting a fiercer account than any conductor ever since back in 1937, the clouds overshadowing so much of the news already (and he'd been serving in Northern France during WWI). And yes: other readings are much more sharp and biting as well, closer to the composer's "intentions" even.

But just as in 'A Pastoral Symphony' preceding it, Brabbins opts for the more mystical side of the score, stressing the fussy, dreamlike moments, not unlike the mists in RVW's best early orchestral work, In the Fenn Country (1904). No Vaughan Williams without mysticism: Brabbins knows it and acts after it. Very convincing new recording, closest to another underestimated one - for very similar reasons - Bryden Thomson's. #Amen  :D


… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4386 on: February 05, 2020, 11:41:43 AM »
[copied from the Listening thread, sorry!]

Playing the new Brabbins RVW 'A Pastoral' in order to compare it with the 2014 Sir Mark Elder version (Hallé). Find it very convincing, thus far, one of the most mystic readings ever (much of it conceived in and around the trenches of Northern France during WWI, there's almost no way to conceive the horror behind the notes, but mysticism certainly one of the better approaches:

To make things worse - for my reputation, if any  ;D - cannot but confirm that I find Brabbins performance of Symphony No. 4 very good too.

No, it isn't as bitter and harsh as the composer's own, conducting a fiercer account than any conductor ever since back in 1937, the clouds overshadowing so much of the news already (and he'd been serving in Northern France during WWI). And yes: other readings are much more sharp and biting as well, closer to the composer's "intentions" even.

But just as in 'A Pastoral Symphony' preceding it, Brabbins opts for the more mystical side of the score, stressing the fussy, dreamlike moments, not unlike the mists in RVW's best early orchestral work, In the Fenn Country (1904). No Vaughan Williams without mysticism: Brabbins knows it and acts after it. Very convincing new recording, closest to another underestimated one - for very similar reasons - Bryden Thomson's. #Amen  :D


Ok I have to listen to No.4. Very interesting and informative comments.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4387 on: February 05, 2020, 12:31:51 PM »
Ok I have to listen to No.4. Very interesting and informative comments.
Sorry for my rambling, typos & errors, was in a hurry, but the message is clear: superb cd, happy to have it.  ;D
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4388 on: February 06, 2020, 02:33:22 AM »
I am looking at the Boult RVW box at the moment (in a sort of Boult phase, as it were).



Is that Boult I ? Boult II ? the one to have please ?

I already have the EMI collectors edition but I believe only the Pilgrim's Progress and the odd work with Boult overlaps.

Otherwise, based on the members' listings found randomly in the thread (I went first 10 pages, 100-110, 200 to end  ;D), I am lining up some cheap used copies of the following as well, that seem to be recommended by many:

Barbirolli 2 & 8
Haitink 7
Previn 3
Thomson 9

I already have the Handley cycle (as his 5th came up), Bernstein NYP for the 4th (in his Sony symphony box), Hickox for the 2nd (1913 version).

i can't find a cheap copy of Berglund for 4 & 6. Anyone else ?  For my sins, I have recently sold the Andrew Davies cycle.

Will this Boult box cover 1 adequately (although this is a symphony much to my taste anyway)
 
Thank you.
Olivier

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4389 on: February 06, 2020, 04:42:02 AM »
I am looking at the Boult RVW box at the moment (in a sort of Boult phase, as it were).


Is that Boult I ? Boult II ? the one to have please ?
I already have the EMI collectors edition but I believe only the Pilgrim's Progress and the odd work with Boult overlaps.
Otherwise, based on the members' listings found randomly in the thread (I went first 10 pages, 100-110, 200 to end  ;D), I am lining up some cheap used copies of the following as well, that seem to be recommended by many:
Barbirolli 2 & 8
Haitink 7
Previn 3
Thomson 9
I already have the Handley cycle (as his 5th came up), Bernstein NYP for the 4th (in his Sony symphony box), Hickox for the 2nd (1913 version).
i can't find a cheap copy of Berglund for 4 & 6. Anyone else ?  For my sins, I have recently sold the Andrew Davies cycle.
Will this Boult box cover 1 adequately (although this is a symphony much to my taste anyway)
 
Thank you.

If I had to go for one older box set it would be Previn/LSO (it seems quite pricey at the moment) but the Boult box (which is the later cycle) is very good.  And all the additional music is a real plus as the Previn has just a couple of fillers.  I spotted a way around the "Pilgrims" duplication and saving some money too with Boult;

On Amazon at the moment you can get this;



for around £2.50 inc. p&p

and this set



for around £8.50 inc. p&p

so about £11.00 in your hand and that covers most of the music you are searching for.  Not sure if this symphony set was ever remastered or if it was how much the sound improved.  I have all the original CD releases and find them very good.  To find those sets above I just searched "boult vaughan williams"

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4390 on: February 06, 2020, 09:52:36 AM »
Hi RS,

Thank you for the feedback and the cheaper options. I rechecked the contents of the Collector's edition and there is actually much more Boult than i originally picked up on (including CD 7 & 8 off the blue box and most of the other CD). I think I might just get this blue cycle anyway given how cheap it is and live with the overlap.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 10:02:35 AM by Papy Oli »
Olivier

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4391 on: February 06, 2020, 02:24:51 PM »
I am looking at the Boult RVW box at the moment (in a sort of Boult phase, as it were).



Is that Boult I ? Boult II ? the one to have please ?

I already have the EMI collectors edition but I believe only the Pilgrim's Progress and the odd work with Boult overlaps.

Otherwise, based on the members' listings found randomly in the thread (I went first 10 pages, 100-110, 200 to end  ;D), I am lining up some cheap used copies of the following as well, that seem to be recommended by many:

Barbirolli 2 & 8
Haitink 7
Previn 3
Thomson 9

I already have the Handley cycle (as his 5th came up), Bernstein NYP for the 4th (in his Sony symphony box), Hickox for the 2nd (1913 version).

i can't find a cheap copy of Berglund for 4 & 6. Anyone else ?  For my sins, I have recently sold the Andrew Davies cycle.

Will this Boult box cover 1 adequately (although this is a symphony much to my taste anyway)
 
Thank you.
I prefer the earlier Decca/Everest Boult cycle but you can't really go wrong with either Olivier. You get short speeches by Boult and VW on the earlier set as well.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Irons

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4392 on: February 07, 2020, 01:26:28 AM »
I prefer the earlier Decca/Everest Boult cycle but you can't really go wrong with either Olivier. You get short speeches by Boult and VW on the earlier set as well.

Should be pointed out that with the exception of 9th, and the 8th I think, the earlier Decca set are not true stereo. This doesn't bother me in the slightest but may other listeners. I agree the Decca set is preferable but I would not be without either, on CD and LP. ;) I could not live without Previn as well.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 01:28:41 AM by Irons »
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4393 on: February 07, 2020, 01:00:39 PM »
If I had to go for one older box set it would be Previn/LSO (it seems quite pricey at the moment) but the Boult box (which is the later cycle) is very good.  And all the additional music is a real plus as the Previn has just a couple of fillers.  I spotted a way around the "Pilgrims" duplication and saving some money too with Boult;

On Amazon at the moment you can get this;



for around £2.50 inc. p&p

and this set



for around £8.50 inc. p&p

so about £11.00 in your hand and that covers most of the music you are searching for.  Not sure if this symphony set was ever remastered or if it was how much the sound improved.  I have all the original CD releases and find them very good.  To find those sets above I just searched "boult vaughan williams"
Those seem amazing value, especially the blue VW box.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4394 on: February 07, 2020, 01:52:31 PM »
thank you for the additional inputs. I have ordered the Blue boult box £8.28 delivered. No-brainer. thanks again RS.
Olivier

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4395 on: February 10, 2020, 07:40:42 AM »
Are these ones the same recordings please ? If not, which is the recommended one ? and/or the best sound quality please ? Thank you.




Olivier

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4396 on: February 10, 2020, 10:06:37 AM »
Are these ones the same recordings please ? If not, which is the recommended one ? and/or the best sound quality please ? Thank you.






I can only see two images Olivier (top and bottom). They are the same recording. The Barbirolli Society issued a separate recording of Barbirolli conducting the premiere of Symphony No.8.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 10:08:30 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Papy Oli

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4397 on: February 10, 2020, 11:10:33 AM »
Thanks Jeffrey.
The 2nd CD is the EMI Phoenix. The 3rd is on Nixa. Both with the 2nd and 8th combo as well.
Olivier

Offline Christo

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4398 on: February 10, 2020, 01:20:53 PM »
Thanks Jeffrey.
The 2nd CD is the EMI Phoenix. The 3rd is on Nixa. Both with the 2nd and 8th combo as well.

There are actually FOUR different recordings of RVW 8 under Barbirolli available.  8) To make things worse: at least two of them also under a couple of (different) CD labels.
You could take these indications of the timings of each of the four movements as a clue to identify each of your copies:

1.   Barbirolli / Hallé 1956 live premiere   10.14   03.36   07.58   05.02
2.   Barbirolli / Hallé 1959                      10.08   03.37   07.43   04.58
3.   Barbirolli / Hallé live Lugano 1961    10.26   03.32   08.05   05.19
4.   Barbirolli / Hallé live Proms 1967      11.31   03.43   08.39   05.53    :D
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Vaughan Williams's Veranda
« Reply #4399 on: February 10, 2020, 04:40:43 PM »
Thanks Jeffrey.
The 2nd CD is the EMI Phoenix. The 3rd is on Nixa. Both with the 2nd and 8th combo as well.
I think that, bearing in mind Christo's list of recordings, all of your recordings are of No.2 Olivier. That is the one which has been more generally in circulation. I think that the Phoenix was the first CD release, the Dutton was the second and the Barbirolli Society was the most recent of that famous old recording. I have all three of them  ::)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 04:44:14 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).