Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Mirror Image]

I think that having been born and brought up in central London gives this work an added appeal to me John. Having said that it was also Vaughan Williams's own favourite, of at least his first eight symphonies.

I wasn't aware that RVW thought so high of it! Makes me want to give it another listen, but I can't right now, I'm listening to Bernstein's CSO recording of Shostakovich's Leningrad. I'll be sure to listen to the original 1913 version. Thankfully, I have the Hickox handy.

About you being raised a Londoner, your mindset is much different than mine as I wasn't raised in a city and spent most of my childhood (esp. age 5-14) in the woods.

[Mirror Image]

Since A London Symphony is the topic at hand, and this is for anyone who can answer this question, but what are the differences between the original 1913 and 1920 versions vs. the final revised version?

[vandermolen]

Since A London Symphony is the topic at hand, and this is for anyone who can answer this question, but what are the differences between the original 1913 and 1920 versions vs. the final revised version?

John - the 1936 version is about 15 minutes shorter than the 1913 version. There's a useful revision history here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_London_Symphony
I wish VW had stopped with the 1920 version. Bernard Herrmann, Arnold Bax and Adrian Boult thought so too! Hickox's CD of the original 1913 version is very special.
The first movement was never changed in any version as far as I'm aware. The biggest regret for me is VW's removal of about two minutes of intensely poetic music from the Epilogue in 1936.

[Mirror Image]

John - the 1936 version is about 15 minutes shorter than the 1913 version. There's a useful revision history here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_London_Symphony
I wish VW had stopped with the 1920 version. Bernard Herrmann, Arnold Bax and Adrian Boult thought so too! Hickox's CD of the original 1913 version is very special.
The first movement was never changed in any version as far as I'm aware. The biggest regret for me is VW's removal of about two minutes of intensely poetic music from the Epilogue in 1936.

Thank you for your feedback, Jeffrey. I'll definitely be getting around to A London Symphony today.

[vandermolen]

Thank you for your feedback, Jeffrey. I'll definitely be getting around to A London Symphony today.

Hope you enjoy it John, whichever version and performance you listen to. Let us know what you think. Towards the endvof his life Vaughan Williams, having just heard a performance of A London Symphony, said to his friend, the conductor Sir John Barbirolli: 'I wish I could still orchestrate like that.'

[Mirror Image]

Hope you enjoy it John, whichever version and performance you listen to. Let us know what you think. Towards the endvof his life Vaughan Williams, having just heard a performance of A London Symphony, said to his friend, the conductor Sir John Barbirolli: 'I wish I could still orchestrate like that.'

That's one thing I always admired about Vaughan Williams was his modesty. Well, I do want to say that I like A London Symphony, but it doesn't, for me, represent the best the composer has done, which isn't to say that this symphony isn't great of course. When I listen to the next symphony, A Pastoral Symphony, I hear the composer finally coming unto his own and the music within that work truly sends my mind into another orbit. I don't mean to be too critical of ol' Ralph as he's one of my favorites, but even with favorites, I know when their music has that special kind of ingredient, but A Sea Symphony and A London Symphony doesn't quite have that kind of magic yet even though they're both accomplished works.

[Christo]

That's one thing I always admired about Vaughan Williams was his modesty. Well, I do want to say that I like A London Symphony, but it doesn't, for me, represent the best the composer has done, which isn't to say that this symphony isn't great of course. When I listen to the next symphony, A Pastoral Symphony, I hear the composer finally coming unto his own and there music within that work truly sends my mind into another orbit. I don't mean to be too critical of ol' Ralph as he's one of my favorites, but even with favorites, I know when their music has that special kind of ingredient, but A Sea Symphony and A London Symphony doesn't quite have that kind of magic yet even though they're both accomplished works.

Exactly the same for me: only from the 'Pastoral' on, his symphonies are masterworks, one by one. There's much that I love in the 'London', especially the two middle movements, but for me much of it - especially the first and last movement - is still rather mainstream. A Pastoral Symphony is totally unique en utterly personal, unlike any other symphony. More or less the same applies to Nos. 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9, even 7, IMHO.

[Mirror Image]

Exactly the same for me: only from the 'Pastoral' on, his symphonies are masterworks, one by one. There's much that I love in the 'London', especially the two middle movements, but for me much of it - especially the first and last movement - is still rather mainstream. A Pastoral Symphony is totally unique en utterly personal, unlike any other symphony. More or less the same applies to Nos. 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9, even 7, IMHO.

Indeed, Johan. Man, now I want to listen to A Pastoral Symphony instead of A London Symphony.

[kyjo]

Personally, I love A London Symphony and find it to be entirely characteristic RVW (unlike A Sea Symphony). Sure, it's not as refined as some of his later works, but I find it to be an atmospheric, often thrilling, and ultimately moving work. I haven't heard the original 1913 version - must check that out. I already find the revised ending to be great, so the original version must be something really special!

[vandermolen]

Personally, I love A London Symphony and find it to be entirely characteristic RVW (unlike A Sea Symphony). Sure, it's not as refined as some of his later works, but I find it to be an atmospheric, often thrilling, and ultimately moving work. I haven't heard the original 1913 version - must check that out. I already find the revised ending to be great, so the original version must be something really special!

I'll be very interested to hear what you think of the original extended epilogue of A London Symphony Kyle. I now find it difficult to listen to the 1936 version as I'm always acutely aware of that missing section. I think that symphonies 4,5 and 6 are his greatest but I love them all. Michael Kennedy, the friend and biographer of RVW rated A Pastoral Symphony as the greatest. Decades ago I heard it live conducted by Norman Del Mar and thought the performance was terrible. I'm not sure that my opinion of the work ever quite recovered from that but Previn's RCA recording did a lot to reveal its greatness to me.

[kyjo]

I'll be very interested to hear what you think of the original extended epilogue of A London Symphony Kyle. I now find it difficult to listen to the 1936 version as I'm always acutely aware of that missing section. I think that symphonies 4,5 and 6 are his greatest but I love them all. Michael Kennedy, the friend and biographer of RVW rated A Pastoral Symphony as the greatest. Decades ago I heard it live conducted by Norman Del Mar and thought the performance was terrible. I'm not sure that my opinion of the work ever quite recovered from that but Previn's RCA recording did a lot to reveal its greatness to me.

I'll definitely check out the Hickox recording on Chandos of the original 1913 version! I'd also count the 9th amongst his greatest symphonies - an underrated and visionary work. Like you, I love them all and in order of preference I'd currently rank them: 6, 2, 9, 5, 4, 3, 8, 7, 1.

[Mirror Image]

I'll definitely check out the Hickox recording on Chandos of the original 1913 version! I'd also count the 9th amongst his greatest symphonies - an underrated and visionary work. Like you, I love them all and in order of preference I'd currently rank them: 6, 2, 9, 5, 4, 3, 8, 7, 1.

My ranking would look like: 5, 6, 3, 8, 4, 9, 7, 2, 1.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

My VW symphonic preference pyramid:

4
5, 6
3, 7, 8
1, 2, 9

[Parsifal]

I'll definitely check out the Hickox recording on Chandos of the original 1913 version! I'd also count the 9th amongst his greatest symphonies - an underrated and visionary work. Like you, I love them all and in order of preference I'd currently rank them: 6, 2, 9, 5, 4, 3, 8, 7, 1.

I have to find time to listen to them again. I don't think I could rank them, except that I don't enjoy the 1st and 7th (due to the wind machine).

I hated Bout/EMI, but I've been through the Davis and Haitink cycles as well as a few individual recordings including the Barbirolli 5th. Thinking about Thomson/Chandos or Previn/RCA. I find it odd that a British record company like Decca never put together a modern Vaughan Williams cycle.

[Mirror Image]

I have to find time to listen to them again. I don't think I could rank them, except that I don't enjoy the 1st and 7th (due to the wind machine).

I hated Bout/EMI, but I've been through the Davis and Haitink cycles as well as a few individual recordings including the Barbirolli 5th. Thinking about Thomson/Chandos or Previn/RCA. I find it odd that a British record company like Decca never put together a modern Vaughan Williams cycle.

Previn's cycle is one of my top favorites along with the Boult (EMI) stereo cycle, which I think is still one of the best. Thomson's cycle has superb audio quality, but I don't find him as convincing as the afore mentioned favorites. Be sure to get the budget reissue if you decide on the Previn --- the audio has been greatly improved.

[SymphonicAddict]

My order would be like that:

2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 1, 9, 8, 3

I also find the London Symphony quite appealing in spite of it's not properly mature as his latter ones. Since the A Sea Symphony I could perceive the distinction of Vaughan Williams as a terrific symphonic composer (as in other genres). A cycle I especially like, which is not often mentioned is that of Naxos. I can't complain about the performances in the symphonies 2 and 5-8. Perhaps the best ones of them are the No. 2 and No. 5 (the Scherzo in the 5th symphony is to my ears more atmospheric and definite than in other recordings).

[Christo]

My order would be like that:
2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 1, 9, 8, 3

Haha! Mine something like:
3, 6, 9, 5, 8, 4, 7, 2, 1
or, almost mirroring your order. 

[vandermolen]

Being a list addict I've really enjoyed reading these lists - it has also kept me away from onerous domestic chores 

My list would be:

6 9 2 (1913 or 1920 version) 5 8 7 1 4 3

This is a 'favourite' list as I would put 5 and 4 higher up a 'greatest' list. No.6 would remain No.1 in both lists.
I've been enjoying Thomson's recording of 'Sinfonia Antartica' in my car.
.

[Mirror Image]

Being a list addict I've really enjoyed reading these lists - it has also kept me away from onerous domestic chores 

My list would be:

6 9 2 (1913 or 1920 version) 5 8 7 1 4 3

This is a 'favourite' list as I would put 5 and 4 higher up a 'greatest' list. No.6 would remain No.1 in both lists.
I've been enjoying Thomson's recording of 'Sinfonia Antartica' in my car.
.

I'm surprised to see A Pastoral Symphony so low on your list, Jeffrey.

[Sergeant Rock]

My VW symphonic preference pyramid:

4
5, 6
3, 7, 8
1, 2, 9

Mine is a reverse pyramid (the double 2 reflects original and final revision).

4, 8, 9, 3
6, 2, 1
5, 2
7