Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Christo]

So it seems that the inspiration for the slow movement of the fifth is amorous as well as spiritual.

Great observation! One would say: just like Flos Campi - though that has a different aesthetic. 

[vandermolen]

Apparently The Poisoned Kiss (complete performance) is on BBC Radio 3 tomorrow afternoon.

[calyptorhynchus]

I hardly know The Poisoned Kiss at all - or ''Sir John in Love' for that matter; isn't The Poisoned Kiss supposed to have a terrible libretto?

I was listening for the music 

[relm1]

One man's floor is another man's ceiling, and all that . . . but I listened again this morning, and those are not three descriptors I should ever apply to this performance.

We disagree then.  I also need to note to take Andrew Achenbach reviews with a grain of salt because he is wrong in this case.  Of all the version so of RVW No. 9 I've heard this is one of the weakest and I can objectively say he ignores much of the score indications in contrast to what Achenbach said. 

[Christo]

Haitink's No. 9 is weak.  Very poorly balanced and not following the dynamics of the score.  It's my least favorite of his series.

My opinion too; I was even shocked when I heard it. My own favourite Ninth remains Thomson's, who has the edge - utter drama - in both central movements.

[vandermolen]

Good review of recent Manze CD:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Apr/VW_sys56_4184.htm

My favourite recordings of No.9

The one recorded on the day of VW's death (26/08/1958) - he had been due to attend the recording session. Boult LPO Everest/Decca. Also Boult's later EMI recording is a wonderfully reflective version. I think that No.9 is generally well served on disc, unlike No.6.

Stokowski on Cala CD

Thomson on Chandos

Handley on CFP has the best harps at the end.

Slatkin is also very good in No.9

[Karl Henning]

We disagree then.  I also need to note to take Andrew Achenbach reviews with a grain of salt because he is wrong in this case.  Of all the version so of RVW No. 9 I've heard this is one of the weakest and I can objectively say he ignores much of the score indications in contrast to what Achenbach said. 

My opinion too; I was even shocked when I heard it. My own favourite Ninth remains Thomson's, who has the edge - utter drama - in both central movements.

Interesting, gents.

The timing is fun, as I have been comparing the Scherzo (which is where I suppose the quarrel with the timid percussion comes in) of some of the recordings I have — and if someone had told me, 20 years ago, that I should have five recordings of the Vaughan Williams Ninth (soon to be six, when the Slatkin lands) I should have stared at him like he had three heads — and I certainly noticed the higher profile of the percussion in the Thomson.

Personally, I still cannot bring myself to apply the word timid to the Haitink.  The "placement" of the percussion is, arguably, consistent with the style.  And of course, I am not a man shy of percussion   

[Biffo]

Good review of recent Manze CD:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2018/Apr/VW_sys56_4184.htm

Thanks for the link. I'm glad it is a good review as the disc is on its way, arriving today. I was disappointed with the Elder pairing of Nos 4 & 6 the reviewer used in his comparison. Still not sure about Manze in Nos 3 & 4 - just finished listening to No 3 again and can't make my mind up whether to buy the disc.

[relm1]

Interesting, gents.

The timing is fun, as I have been comparing the Scherzo (which is where I suppose the quarrel with the timid percussion comes in) of some of the recordings I have — and if someone had told me, 20 years ago, that I should have five recordings of the Vaughan Williams Ninth (soon to be six, when the Slatkin lands) I should have stared at him like he had three heads — and I certainly noticed the higher profile of the percussion in the Thomson.

Personally, I still cannot bring myself to apply the word timid to the Haitink.  The "placement" of the percussion is, arguably, consistent with the style.  And of course, I am not a man shy of percussion   

I've mentioned on this thread before that my favorite No. 9 is Previn/LSO.  It brings the best mix of mystery and contemplation (not felt in some of the more brutal interpretations) with gravitas.  Expertly performed and interpreted.  I also like both Boults for similar reasons (slight preference to 1969 recording but the 1958 version is a sentimental and safe choice).  Handley is also very strong but not able to top my favorites.  My least favorite are Davis (both of them), Haitink, and Bakels which is just too rushed and doesn't relish in the grandeur of the monumental music.

[Karl Henning]

Interesting, thanks.

[vandermolen]

Just listened again to Haitink's LPO version of 'A Sea Symphony' (BBC 'Building a Library' No. 1 choice in 2000) - it always moves me considerably more than any other recording. If you want to hear this work I think that you have to hear this version.

[Christo]

Just listened again to Haitink's LPO version of 'A Sea Symphony' (BBC 'Building a Library' No. 1 choice in 2000) - it always moves me considerably more than any other recording. If you want to hear this work I think that you have to hear this version.

Fully seconded. Haitink's Sea and Antartica are the only ones that I like. 

[Karl Henning]

Most gratifying!

This morning, I am revisiting A Pastoral Symphony from the Bryden Thomson set.

[Biffo]

just listened to Symphony No 6 from Andrew Manze and the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra and not sure what to make of it. After a dramatic start I get the impression that Manze is trying to be different from everyone else and the 1st movement sounds just plain odd. Obviously I will have to give it another listen.

The Slatkin cycle arrived today. I haven't started on the symphonies yet but listened to the Tallis Fantasia - well played but lacking something.

[vandermolen]

Most gratifying!

This morning, I am revisiting A Pastoral Symphony from the Bryden Thomson set.

One of the few successes I think. This symphony is difficult to get right. Previn is best as far as I'm concerned.

[relm1]

One of the few successes I think. This symphony is difficult to get right. Previn is best as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with you.  Previn/LSO were firing on all cylinders during their tenure.  Some fantastic recordings came then and I believe the 70's was the best the LSO ever sounded.  But more importantly, the yank really got to the heart of the subtext of this music in a way I haven't heard again (with the possible exception of Boult).  Every recording since those cycles is compared to them IMO. 

If you need to own a complete cycle by one orchestra/conductor these are the ones to have.  If you are willing to mix and match then it becomes much more complicated.  Haitink/LPO is my favorite "Sea Symphony" for example and one of my least favorite No. 9.  I don't really care for Previn's Sea Symphony and adore his No. 9. 

[vandermolen]

I agree with you.  Previn/LSO were firing on all cylinders during their tenure.  Some fantastic recordings came then and I believe the 70's was the best the LSO ever sounded.  But more importantly, the yank really got to the heart of the subtext of this music in a way I haven't heard again (with the possible exception of Boult).  Every recording since those cycles is compared to them IMO. 

If you need to own a complete cycle by one orchestra/conductor these are the ones to have.  If you are willing to mix and match then it becomes much more complicated.  Haitink/LPO is my favorite "Sea Symphony" for example and one of my least favorite No. 9.  I don't really care for Previn's Sea Symphony and adore his No. 9.

I agree although can't remember the Haitink No.9. Weird as it might sound I think that A Pastoral Symphony works better on CD than live. Controversial I know but maybe to do with the intimate nature of the music. Maybe because I did not enjoy the live concert I attended (Del Mar) during which my brother actually feel asleep.

Anyway this gives me a chance for another list. 

A Sea Symphony: Haitink (Studio recording)
A London Symphony: Hickox (1913), Brabbins (1920), Boult (EMI or Decca), Barbirolli (EMI) 1936
A Pastoral Symphony: Previn LSO
Symphony 4: Berglund
Symphony No.5 Barbirolli (EMI)
Symphony No. 6 Boult (LPO Decca)
Sinfonia Antartica Boult (LPO Decca) though I need to listen to Haitink again
Symphony No.8 Previn LSO
Symphony No. 9 Stokowski, either Boult version, Thomson, Slatkin.

[Biffo]

As it is list time here is my not entirely conclusive set of favourites -

No 1 A Sea Symphony - Elder/Halle just ahead of Spano/Atlanta SO
No 2 A London Symphony (Standard version) - hard to choose between Barbirolli/Halle (1957, though I prefer the Lento from the later recording) and Boult/LPO though I have a soft spot for Handley/RLPO
No 3 Pastoral Symphony - Previn/LSO
No 4 RVW himself conducting the BBC SO; if you want a modern recording, a very new found favourite - Kalmar/Oregon SO
No 5 Very difficult to choose between Previn/LSO, Barbirolli/Philharmonia and Boult/LPO - Boult and Barbirolli need remastering, the strings in the Boult have a very unpleasant edge to them I don't remember from the LP issue
No 6 Boult/LSO (1949/50) - can't choose a modern version
No 7 Sinfonia antartica - Haitink/LPO though I also like Previn/LSO minus the 'furry-voiced recitations' (copyright 'Gramophone'). Also have a soft spot for Barbirolli's world premiere recording, shame it is in mono.
No 8 Any of Barbirolli's recordings have authenticity but I go for Halle/Elder for a modern version
No 9 Handley or Previn, the symphony I know least well

Best cycle - Previn/LSO
Most amazing cycle - Rozhdestvensky conducting The State Symphony Orchestra of the USSR Ministry of Culture

Mention of BBC Radio 3 and Building a Library (above) sent me to look up the top choices (1999 - 2017). Nos 7 & 8 weren't reviewed in this period. I have given the name of the guilty reviewer.

No 1 - Haitink/LPO etc (2000) - Edward Seckerson
No 1 Spano/Atlanta SO (2007) - Piers Burton-Page
No Handley/RLPO  - Mark Lowther
No 3 Hickox/LSO - Andrew Green
No 4 Berglund/RPO- Piers Burton-Page
No 5 Hickox/LSO - Piers Burton-Page
No 6 Hickox/LSO - Stephen Johnson
No 9 Handley/RLPO - Jonathan Swain

Hickox does well; I collected his incomplete cycle as it was issued and greatly enjoyed it though none counted as my first choice. I seem to recall several of the discs got tepid reviews in the press but don't have any wxamples to offer.

[vandermolen]

As it is list time here is my not entirely conclusive set of favourites -

No 1 A Sea Symphony - Elder/Halle just ahead of Spano/Atlanta SO
No 2 A London Symphony (Standard version) - hard to choose between Barbirolli/Halle (1957, though I prefer the Lento from the later recording) and Boult/LPO though I have a soft spot for Handley/RLPO
No 3 Pastoral Symphony - Previn/LSO
No 4 RVW himself conducting the BBC SO; if you want a modern recording, a very new found favourite - Kalmar/Oregon SO
No 5 Very difficult to choose between Previn/LSO, Barbirolli/Philharmonia and Boult/LPO - Boult and Barbirolli need remastering, the strings in the Boult have a very unpleasant edge to them I don't remember from the LP issue
No 6 Boult/LSO (1949/50) - can't choose a modern version
No 7 Sinfonia antartica - Haitink/LPO though I also like Previn/LSO minus the 'furry-voiced recitations' (copyright 'Gramophone'). Also have a soft spot for Barbirolli's world premiere recording, shame it is in mono.
No 8 Any of Barbirolli's recordings have authenticity but I go for Halle/Elder for a modern version
No 9 Handley or Previn, the symphony I know least well

Best cycle - Previn/LSO
Most amazing cycle - Rozhdestvensky conducting The State Symphony Orchestra of the USSR Ministry of Culture

Mention of BBC Radio 3 and Building a Library (above) sent me to look up the top choices (1999 - 2017). Nos 7 & 8 weren't reviewed in this period. I have given the name of the guilty reviewer.

No 1 - Haitink/LPO etc (2000) - Edward Seckerson
No 1 Spano/Atlanta SO (2007) - Piers Burton-Page
No Handley/RLPO  - Mark Lowther
No 3 Hickox/LSO - Andrew Green
No 4 Berglund/RPO- Piers Burton-Page
No 5 Hickox/LSO - Piers Burton-Page
No 6 Hickox/LSO - Stephen Johnson
No 9 Handley/RLPO - Jonathan Swain

Hickox does well; I collected his incomplete cycle as it was issued and greatly enjoyed it though none counted as my first choice. I seem to recall several of the discs got tepid reviews in the press but don't have any wxamples to offer.

Interesting choices and thanks for including the BBC choices as well. I think that No.9 is Handley's best although his Sea Symphony and Symphony 5 are very good as well. All the others are good but none would be my first choice. His earlier LPO recording of A London Symphony is better, I think, than the RLPO version.

[Sergeant Rock]

Anyway this gives me a chance for another list. 

As it is list time here is my not entirely conclusive set of favourites

Here's mine, keeping it to two each here (although I have four to five favorites of each symphony):

1 - Boult (EMI)
     Haitink

2 -  Barbirolli (Dutton)
      Hickox (1913)

3 - Haitink
     Boult (Decca)

4 - Bernstein
     Boult (Decca)
   
5 - Menuhin
     Haitink
   
6 - Boult (Decca)
     Haitink
     
7 - Haitink
     Previn

8 - Haitink
     Boult (EMI)

9 - Thomson
     Haitink

Obviously my favorite cycles are Haitink and the Boults with Rozhdestvensky a fascinating alternative. Just wish his 8th wasn't such a disaster.

Sarge