Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[Biffo]

Interesting. Must look out for that one.

I see its on a recent CD of VW's piano music which I have. The orchestral version is coupled with Richard Hickox's recording of Symphony 5. I recall really enjoying all the shorter works on that CD, such as 'The Pilgrim's Pavement'.

The piece is also available on the album 'The Sons of the Morning' (Albion Records), played by Ian Burnside. I suppose the Harriet Cohen is special as it was written for her but the IB disc might be more readily available.

[vandermolen]

The piece is also available on the album 'The Sons of the Morning' (Albion Records), played by Ian Burnside. I suppose the Harriet Cohen is special as it was written for her but the IB disc might be more readily available.

Thanks.
I have that CD as well.

[Biffo]

Thanks.
I have that CD as well.

I also have the Hickox album - just played the Prelude - beautiful. These short pieces tend to get overlooked, glad it was brought to my attention.

[vandermolen]

I also have the Hickox album - just played the Prelude - beautiful. These short pieces tend to get overlooked, glad it was brought to my attention.

Pleased that you enjoyed them. That CD has given me great pleasure, not just the symphony but all the shorter works as well. It's probably my favourite CD in the Hickox cycle other that the revelatory 1913 version of 'A London Symphony'.

[Mirror Image]

What does everyone here think of Andrew Manze's traversal of RVW's symphonies on Onyx so far? I've only heard the first installment (A London Symphony & Symphony No. 8), but was rather underwhelmed by the performances.

Released so far:

[Biffo]

What does everyone here think of Andrew Manze's traversal of RVW's symphonies on Onyx so far? I've only heard the first installment (A London Symphony & Symphony No. 8), but was rather underwhelmed by the performances.

Released so far:

Too soon to tell; I have them all but haven't listened to the Sea Symphony yet. None of them have been a knock-out but also none complete duds. Initially I held back from buying Nos 3 & 4 after hearing No 3 on the radio but eventually succumbed - I have only listened to the disc a couple of times but it is growing on me.

[Mirror Image]

Too soon to tell; I have them all but haven't listened to the Sea Symphony yet. None of them have been a knock-out but also none complete duds. Initially I held back from buying Nos 3 & 4 after hearing No 3 on the radio but eventually succumbed - I have only listened to the disc a couple of times but it is growing on me.

My problem with the conducting, and general performance, is I believe it to be competent and well-played, but that's all it was, which, unfortunately, can be said of so many recent recordings nowadays. For me, the best (more) recent performances of RVW I've heard have been from Brabbins and a performance of A Pastoral Symphony from Mark Elder.

[vandermolen]

My problem with the conducting, and general performance, is I believe it to be competent and well-played, but that's all it was, which, unfortunately, can be said of so many recent recordings nowadays. For me, the best (more) recent performances of RVW I've heard have been from Brabbins and a performance of A Pastoral Symphony from Mark Elder.

This is my experience exactly. I have the top three CDs of symphonies 2 and 8, 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 but don't intend to collect any more of the series except possibly No.9 which I really like. The Brabbins CDs of the 1920 London Symphony and A Sea Symphony have grabbed me much more. Nothing wrong with the Manze recordings and some really like them but they don't do it for me.

[Mirror Image]

This is my experience exactly. I have the top three CDs of symphonies 2 and 8, 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 but don't intend to collect any more of the series except possibly No.9 which I really like. The Brabbins CDs of the 1920 London Symphony and A Sea Symphony have grabbed me much more. Nothing wrong with the Manze recordings and some really like them but they don't do it for me.

The thing about the Brabbins is I feel someone behind the podium who loves the music, but, at the same time, wants to try a newer approach. I don't want to discount Manze by saying he doesn't love the music, but I feel that somehow Brabbins has lived with the music longer and wants to find a way to bring this lifelong experience into the music.

[Christo]

My problem with the conducting, and general performance, is I believe it to be competent and well-played, but that's all it was, which, unfortunately, can be said of so many recent recordings nowadays. For me, the best (more) recent performances of RVW I've heard have been from Brabbins and a performance of A Pastoral Symphony from Mark Elder.

This is my experience exactly. I have the top three CDs of symphonies 2 and 8, 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 but don't intend to collect any more of the series except possibly No.9 which I really like. The Brabbins CDs of the 1920 London Symphony and A Sea Symphony have grabbed me much more. Nothing wrong with the Manze recordings and some really like them but they don't do it for me.

+1. To be honest, I tried only the Manze recordings of nos. 3, 4, 5 and 6 and played them no more than once or twice. Because I found all of them undistinctive, unlike Elder's Pastoral and Brabbins' London, both impressive.

[Mirror Image]

+1. To be honest, I tried only the Manze recordings of nos. 3, 4, 5 and 6 and played them no more than once or twice. Because I found all of them undistinctive, unlike Elder's Pastoral and Brabbins' London, both impressive.

Seems like most of us here have had the same reactions, which is quite telling.

[Mirror Image]

Cross-posted from the 'Listening' thread -

Vaughan Williams: A Sea Symphony



Some general comments: I really like Brabbins' detailed approach and he really succeeds in bringing this symphony's structure into full view. I found Llewellyn's voice to be rather good, but found Farnsworth weak overall. I'm in the midst of finishing up The Explorers movement. Brabbins' pacing and choice of tempi are spot-on. The chorus sounds great throughout as does the BBC Scottish SO. I do hope Brabbins continues this RVW series. Of current recordings of RVW, this one shoots right up to the top (with Brabbins' A London Symphony as well). I have to say I'm eagerly awaiting the next installment.

[vandermolen]

Cross-posted from the 'Listening' thread -

Yes, me too John. Elder and Manze are good (Elder excellent in No.3) but the Brabbins releases so far are something special. Haven't heard Manze's 'A Sea Symphony'.

[Mirror Image]

Yes, me too John. Elder and Manze are good (Elder excellent in No.3) but the Brabbins releases so far are something special. Haven't heard Manze's 'A Sea Symphony'.

Indeed, Jeffrey. I have no interest in acquiring any more of the Manze recordings since I was so thoroughly letdown by his first installment. I mean it's one thing to be not quite good in one symphony and outstanding in another, but Manze's first recording (w/ A London Symphony and Symphony No. 8) wasn't anything special in either symphony. In fact, I found him rather run-of-the-mill and ordinary. Brabbins, on the other hand, makes you believe in this music and takes you on an aural journey. His passion doesn't feel forced or contrived. I believe he truly loves this music and, so far, the performances show this passion.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Having Andrew Davis, Haitink, Previn plus the odd Barbirolli I feel that I am set for life. I have the Brabbins recording of the Londpn Symphony for the different edition but ironically I didn't get past the first movement, which is the same in all editions...

[Mirror Image]

Having Andrew Davis, Haitink, Previn plus the odd Barbirolli I feel that I am set for life. I have the Brabbins recording of the Londpn Symphony for the different edition but ironically I didn't get past the first movement, which is the same in all editions...

Vaughan Williams is one of my absolute favorite composers, so I'm always on the lookout for continuing to build my collection and I'm thankful for what Brabbins has given us so far.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Vaughan Williams is one of my absolute favorite composers, so I'm always on the lookout for continuing to build my collection and I'm thankful for what Brabbins has given us so far.

I should listen again. I had the idea, "I'll listen movement by movement to the 1920 and final edition, side by side, so I'll actually hear the difference." Trouble is, I listened to Brabbins, mvmt I, then Barbirolli, mvmt I, and that was it. Nothing could make me turn off the Barbirolli until I got to the end of the symphony. Then I listened to Haitink, and to Adrew Davis, and I was too saturated with the London Symphony to go back to Brabbins. More discipline next time.

[Mirror Image]

I should listen again. I had the idea, "I'll listen movement by movement to the 1920 and final edition, side by side, so I'll actually hear the difference." Trouble is, I listened to Brabbins, mvmt I, then Barbirolli, mvmt I, and that was it. Nothing could make me turn off the Barbirolli until I got to the end of the symphony. Then I listened to Haitink, and to Adrew Davis, and I was too saturated with the London Symphony to go back to Brabbins. More discipline next time.

Well, over-saturation is never a good thing as I'm quite the expert on this! Yes, you should definitely revisit Brabbins' performance (I'll probably end up doing the same thing rather soon). If I couldn't have the original 1913 version, then the 1920 version will do. Brabbins certainly delivers the goods.

[vandermolen]

Having Andrew Davis, Haitink, Previn plus the odd Barbirolli I feel that I am set for life. I have the Brabbins recording of the Londpn Symphony for the different edition but ironically I didn't get past the first movement, which is the same in all editions...

No Boult 

[Oates]

I was not going to bother with the Manze cycle. Them I read Simon Heffer:

Heffer describes Manze as "the greatest living interpreter of Vaughan Williams' music, and especially of his symphonies."

"When I first heard that disc [of Vaughan Williams Symphonies No.2 and 8], and despite having already numerous recordings of both symphonies by conductors so close to Vaughan Williams as Boult and Barbirolli, and as insightful about him as Vernon Handley and André Previn, I realised Manze was taking me further inside the works than I had ever been before.

This should not have surprised me. A few years ago, I found a performance of the Fourth Symphony by Manze and the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra, broadcast on Radio 3, so absorbing I almost crashed my car."

Heffer also offers some insight into Manze's approach to the British composer's work:

"Why is Manze so good at Vaughan Williams? First, he goes back to the original scores and looks carefully at them: so carefully that the Liverpool concert of the Fifth was the first given as the composer intended since he himself last conducted it – because two squiggles in the score that were thought to be notes, and which have been played in every other performance and recording but which the composer knew not to be there, were not notes at all. Manze realised this after listening to a 1952 recording of Vaughan Williams conducting it.

But he also seems to understand the mind of the composer, allowing him to relay his vision with true clarity; and has a keen appreciation of the context in which the music was written. If you add that to superb musicianship and a natural affinity for Vaughan Williams' idiom, you have a combination of qualities that can only lead to inspirational performances.

The performances of the Fifth and Sixth were awesome ... He brings out the significance of every note, played by an orchestra whose coherence and comprehension of these scores lacks nothing. It was time for a truly great modern Vaughan Williams cycle, and this is it."

The first CD in Manze's Vaughan Williams cycle with the RLPO, a recording of Symphonies No.2 and 8 published by Onyx Classics, received widespread critical acclaim on its release in April 2016:

"Manze keeps a tight rein but lets the music blossom. The RLPO and its excellent soloists make a warm, lustrous sound."
Guardian, April 2016

"Manze guides the music with affection and sensitivity, obtaining refined playing from the RLPO ... Manze finds the poetry in the music ... the hushed closing pages are truly magical."


"Manze never puts a foot wrong."

Then I read the accounts of Manze on this forum and decided that Simon Heffer had probably over sold him. I still haven't bought any of them!