Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I was not going to bother with the Manze cycle. Them I read Simon Heffer:

Heffer describes Manze as "the greatest living interpreter of Vaughan Williams' music, and especially of his symphonies."

"When I first heard that disc [of Vaughan Williams Symphonies No.2 and 8], and despite having already numerous recordings of both symphonies by conductors so close to Vaughan Williams as Boult and Barbirolli, and as insightful about him as Vernon Handley and André Previn, I realised Manze was taking me further inside the works than I had ever been before.

This should not have surprised me. A few years ago, I found a performance of the Fourth Symphony by Manze and the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra, broadcast on Radio 3, so absorbing I almost crashed my car."

Heffer also offers some insight into Manze's approach to the British composer's work:

"Why is Manze so good at Vaughan Williams? First, he goes back to the original scores and looks carefully at them: so carefully that the Liverpool concert of the Fifth was the first given as the composer intended since he himself last conducted it – because two squiggles in the score that were thought to be notes, and which have been played in every other performance and recording but which the composer knew not to be there, were not notes at all. Manze realised this after listening to a 1952 recording of Vaughan Williams conducting it.

But he also seems to understand the mind of the composer, allowing him to relay his vision with true clarity; and has a keen appreciation of the context in which the music was written. If you add that to superb musicianship and a natural affinity for Vaughan Williams' idiom, you have a combination of qualities that can only lead to inspirational performances.

The performances of the Fifth and Sixth were awesome ... He brings out the significance of every note, played by an orchestra whose coherence and comprehension of these scores lacks nothing. It was time for a truly great modern Vaughan Williams cycle, and this is it."

The first CD in Manze's Vaughan Williams cycle with the RLPO, a recording of Symphonies No.2 and 8 published by Onyx Classics, received widespread critical acclaim on its release in April 2016:

"Manze keeps a tight rein but lets the music blossom. The RLPO and its excellent soloists make a warm, lustrous sound."
Guardian, April 2016

"Manze guides the music with affection and sensitivity, obtaining refined playing from the RLPO ... Manze finds the poetry in the music ... the hushed closing pages are truly magical."


"Manze never puts a foot wrong."

Then I read the accounts of Manze on this forum and decided that Simon Heffer had probably over sold him. I still haven't bought any of them!

That sounds like just the review from an expert in one thing but a non expert in classical music. Easily impressed, not without significant knowledge but also not fully immersed in the subject. And acquainted with the conductor. Could have been Paul Johnson, 20 years ago. Or another few reviewers I can think of. :-)

[vandermolen]

That sounds like just the review from an expert in one thing but a non expert in classical music. Easily impressed, not without significant knowledge but also not fully immersed in the subject. And acquainted with the conductor. Could have been Paul Johnson, 20 years ago. Or another few reviewers I can think of. :-)

I didn't think much of Simon Heffer's book on VW either. It told me absolutely nothing about the composer that I didn't already know.

[Christo]

I didn't think much of Simon Heffer's book on VW either. It told me absolutely nothing about the composer that I didn't already know.

+1. It's basically a 'RVW For Dummies' book, a welcome addition to the series. 

[Oates]

"Why is Manze so good at Vaughan Williams? First, he goes back to the original scores and looks carefully at them: so carefully that the Liverpool concert of the Fifth was the first given as the composer intended since he himself last conducted it – because two squiggles in the score that were thought to be notes, and which have been played in every other performance and recording but which the composer knew not to be there, were not notes at all. Manze realised this after listening to a 1952 recording of Vaughan Williams conducting it.

I even think Heffer is wrong about Manze's 5th Symphony. Hadn't this anomaly already been corrected by Martin Yates' version of 2011 on Dutton Epoch, described thus:

"This world premiere recording of Peter Horton's new edition of Vaughan Williams' Fifth Symphony edited from the manuscript is the first time a recording addresses all the textural problems left in the published score. Peter Horton writes: The composer's notoriously hard-to-read handwriting caused further problems, as the copyist assigned to make a fair copy of the score introduced a large number of mistakes, principally (but not exclusively) in the phrasing and articulation. To compound matters, these subsequently made their way into the orchestral parts and the published score."

[aukhawk]

... Brabbins, on the other hand, makes you believe in this music and takes you on an aural journey. His passion doesn't feel forced or contrived. I believe he truly loves this music and, so far, the performances show this passion.

I have to confess, I've never had any difficulty believing in the Sea Symphony!

[Christo]

I have to confess, I've never had any difficulty believing in the Sea Symphony!

I find that a remarkable feat of endurance  ; being an admirer of his music for over 40 years myself, yet the Sea Symphony always let me cold, even in its best performances. 

[Mirror Image]

I have to confess, I've never had any difficulty believing in the Sea Symphony!

A Sea Symphony was the first symphony I heard by RVW and I did find the music alluring whenever I heard it for the first-time so many years ago, but when I heard the other symphonies, I began to think of it as a good start, but hardly on par with what became my personal favorites. I do think a lot more of it right now as Brabbins has certainly given me a window into the work that I really haven't heard previously. I still stand by my initial criticism of his performance that Farnsworth is underpowered, but as the performance progressed, I started to forget about it and just enjoy the music. Looking forward to revisiting it.

[relm1]

The Sea Symphony has always been very special for me.  I believe it was the fourth of his symphonies I encountered after 4,5,7.  It's explosive energy and urgency, gorgeous atmospheres and moods, but its deep contemplative finale always held me through its length.  With a very fine composer, it's hard to fault a work - you see it as part of a journey.  Similarly with Sibelius, there is no failure even though No. 1 is unique and not quite in the style the composer would be famous for, but I absolutely adore it along with the rest.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

No Boult 

Boult/EMI almost convinced me that I don't like Vaughan Williams. Surprising since I am generally an admirer of Boult.

I have the Boult/Decca, but have never given it a spin. I'm saving it for my dotage. I also have the Chandos cycle but have never gotten around to listening to it.

So I'm not in the market for more Vaughan Williams, except I am determined to listen to the suppressed versions of the London (Hickox and Brabbins)..

[SurprisedByBeauty]

#morninglistening to #VaughanWilliams on #NationalHatDay: #Barbirolli & @the_halle in the 2nd & 8th

: http://a-fwd.to/2yGcUdO

@SurprisedBeauty music!

[TheGSMoeller]

#morninglistening to #VaughanWilliams on #NationalHatDay: #Barbirolli & @the_halle in the 2nd & 8th

: http://a-fwd.to/2yGcUdO

@SurprisedBeauty music!

Jens, is that your RVW-listening hat? We need a pic of you and that hat together to make this post legit.

[TheGSMoeller]

Why, of course it is! 

+10
Awesome!

[Roasted Swan]

That sounds like just the review from an expert in one thing but a non expert in classical music. Easily impressed, not without significant knowledge but also not fully immersed in the subject. And acquainted with the conductor. Could have been Paul Johnson, 20 years ago. Or another few reviewers I can think of. :-)

I struggle with Manze as a conductor.  For years we are told that he is one of THE great baroque specialist violinists.  This is HIS THING.  We must listen to him and understand this is a musician devoted and dedicated to this aspect of his craft.  Then suddenly, thanks no doubt to a good agent and an even better PR company we suddenly realise that that WASN'T what he was REALLY about at all.  No no no - he's actually a conductor and an ace in RVW etc.  I heard a good story about Manze from his Helsingborg days when he recorded the Brahms symphonies (funny - don't hear much about that cycle do we).  Finishes a session, producer comes on the fold back.  "Well done Andrew, that is the BEST Brahms I have heard....... today"  He is a TODAY conductor - he will not have a legacy - mark my words.

[JBS]

I will step in and say that I like Manze's RVW recordings. I know I seem to be in the minority here, but I would suggest at least trying one of them before deciding. Since it's the most recent and therefore clearest in my memory, I will say I think he did a better job with Sea Symphony than Brabbyns.

[vandermolen]

I never got on with A Sea Symphony until I heard Haitink's recording which completely transformed my attitude to the work, although the best music IMHO is in the finale. I think Handley's version is good, perhaps the best of his cycle along with No.9 and I like the new Brabbins. Maybe I should fish out my three Manze CDs and give them another spin.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

+10
Awesome!

I aim to please. Also caused some deal of explaining to my mildly perplexed wife who took the picture. :-)

[Mirror Image]

I never got on with A Sea Symphony until I heard Haitink's recording which completely transformed my attitude to the work, although the best music IMHO is in the finale. I think Handley's version is good, perhaps the best of his cycle along with No.9 and I like the new Brabbins. Maybe I should fish out my three Manze CDs and give them another spin.

To the bolded text, nah. If your view on Manze mirrors my own, which I believe it does, then the best thing you could do is probably sell them to a second-hand shop.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I was asking some questions over on the current listening thread--to which Irons kindly replied with some information regarding Boult and his recordings of the Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis--and am wondering which of the recordings my fellow forumites like best of them (if any)?   

Best wishes,

PD

[North Star]

I was asking some questions over on the current listening thread--to which Irons kindly replied with some information regarding Boult and his recordings of the Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis--and am wondering which of the recordings my fellow forumites like best of them (if any)?   

Best wishes,

PD

I'd recommend Silvestri & Bournemouth and Barbirolli & Philharmonia.

[André]

I'd recommend Silvestri & Bournemouth and Barbirolli & Philharmonia.

+1 !