Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[cilgwyn]

Vandermolen may be interested to know,that,I finally gave into temptation and bought s/h cds of Bryden Thomson's recordings of Symphonies 4,6 & 9. I like all the recordings of music I've heard by Thomson;and after listening to VW symphonies,over the last few days,I decided I just had to hear some of his VW,which I know is rated highly here,by some members;including vandermolen. I note,that the Thomson recording of the Ninth,is paired with the Piano concerto;one of my favourite VW compositions (particularly in the Boult emi recording) and the Sixth,with the Tuba Concerto. I must say,I love the Tuba Concerto;which I know from the  Barbirolli recording.

[Christo]

Vandermolen may be interested to know,that,I finally gave into temptation and bought s/h cds of Bryden Thomson's recordings of Symphonies 4,6 & 9. I like all the recordings of music I've heard by Thomson;and after listening to VW symphonies,over the last few days,I decided I just had to hear some of his VW,which I know is rated highly here,by some members;including vandermolen. I note,that the Thomson recording of the Ninth,is paired with the Piano concerto;one of my favourite VW compositions (particularly in the Boult emi recording) and the Sixth,with the Tuba Concerto. I must say,I love the Tuba Concerto;which I know from the  Barbirolli recording.

Unlike more sensible people here, I also have a strong preference for Thomson in the Sixth - I think his somewhat slower approach in the first movement is extra dramatic and powerful, it's my first choice - and the two middle parts of the Ninth: with no one else the raw drama, especially of the second movement, with its alternation of banality and nostalgia (theme of The Solent) comes out so well.

[cilgwyn]

I'm looking forward to the Thomson Sixth,Christo!   And the other two! I picked the Ninth,because it's one of my favourites,I needed another recording;and it seems to be one of the more difficult ones to get 'right'! And the Piano concerto,was another incentive! The Sixth,is another 'tricky' one. And it is one of my favourite VW symphonies. I saw your post about the Thomson recording on the WAYLTN (What are you listening to now? for the uninitiated! ) which was another reason to hear it. I like Thomson's Bax,which has had it's share of flak from the critics! (Even Chandos favour Handley!! . And I'd love another recording of the Tuba concerto!! And the Fourth,from being one of my lkeast favourite VW symphonies,has increasingly become one of my favourites. A fascinating and gripping symphony. I NEED another recording! I'm not so sure about,the fill-up?(horrible term,I know! The 'Concerto Accademico';but I need another opportunity to get to know this work,a little better! Has anyone got a view on this work,that they could share;by the way?! Oh,and I mustn't forget the paintings!!

Incidentally,I listened to the RCA cd of Previn conducting Symphonies 7 & 8,last night. I've posted about his 'Sinfonia Antartica',before;but not about his No 8,which I focused on last night. I think this might be a favourite recording,now! The last movement was a particular delight;and the way the recording team seemed to get all those instruments. I found it quite thrilling,actually!  No 8 may just have moved up my 'favourite' VW symphonies 'list',now (although I've always enjoyed the first movement). Not that I didn't like it. I just didn't know quite what to make of it?! I think I'm going to just have,to have,another listen later!!

[vandermolen]

Vandermolen may be interested to know,that,I finally gave into temptation and bought s/h cds of Bryden Thomson's recordings of Symphonies 4,6 & 9. I like all the recordings of music I've heard by Thomson;and after listening to VW symphonies,over the last few days,I decided I just had to hear some of his VW,which I know is rated highly here,by some members;including vandermolen. I note,that the Thomson recording of the Ninth,is paired with the Piano concerto;one of my favourite VW compositions (particularly in the Boult emi recording) and the Sixth,with the Tuba Concerto. I must say,I love the Tuba Concerto;which I know from the  Barbirolli recording.

Of course I'm delighted to hear that you have snapped up copies of Bryden Thomson's underrated Vaughan Williams cycle cilgwyn. I have all the individual releases with their fine J.M.W.Turner cover images and also the boxed set  (OCDCDCD) which includes the fine earlier painting of the composer by Sir Gerald Kelly. Here is what the 'BBC Music Magazine Top 1000 CDs Guide' had to say about their choice of Thomson's recording of VW's Symphony 6:

Command of the ardour, menace and baleful violence of the first three movements (Andrew Davis, Vernon Handley, Previn) doesn't guarantee ability to sustain the miasmic tension of that Sphinx-like finale, whose undulating, almost expressionless lines convey ultimate elegiac pathos whilst never rising above pianissimo...Iron discipline is needed in performance but, but Slatkin (like Kees Bakels on Naxos) seems to achieve it at the expense of the other movements tensions...Bryden Thomson, despite the slightly cavernous Chandos sound, here delivers the most cogent performance of his cycle...and there is a rapt, frozen beauty to the finale.

I'm also a fan of the Tuba Concerto, especially the beautiful central movement and totally disagree with James Day's negative assessment of the work ('the jokes fall flat') in his biography of the composer. Thanks to Christo I discovered a fine version of that central movement for cello and orchestra. I'm also totally with you on the Symphony 9/Piano Concerto coupling on Chandos - two of my favourite works by Vaughan Williams and I'll be interested to hear your views on the Thomson recordings. I rarely listen to the Concerto Accademico and much prefer the Tuba Concerto and the Piano Concerto, especially in its two piano version.

PS Cilgwyn, I think that you're right about Previn's being the best recording of Symphony 8 - it has a magical quality to the opening and an atmosphere unlike any other version I know. On to the subject of great VW couplings and also fine cover images here is one of the favourite VW discoveries of my youth, which I took out of the High Street Kensington Music Library. I made my father join the library as well, although he had no interest in classical music, so that I could use his three tickets as well as my own (contextual information). Recently reissued on CD in Japan with notes all in Japanese:

PPS Berglund's is probably my favourite version of Symphony 4 although I also like ones by Boult (about the only time I prefer his EMI version to the earlier Decca recording, although 'A London Symphony' is also marvellous on EMI) Mitropolous and Bernstein.

[cilgwyn]

Yes,I must say,I haven't,exactly,been blown away by the Concerto Accademica,when I've listened to it! I'll have to listen to it,now,though! Unless I turn the cd off,after the symphony!! I like the mental picture of you making your father join the library! I'm sure it was,merely,gentle persuasion?! It reminds me of my father;who isn't interested in music. He used to call the cd player,the noise machine!! revealing,much to my consternation;after my mother died,that he didn't like Bob Hope! So he was just feigning?!! The movies he sat through!! Though, I can understand him! The things I've had to listen to,or sit through;not wanting to hurt someone's feelings!! Oh well! He won't get to see the Marx Brothers!! Although,I've bought a s/h dvd of The Night of the Hunter (He likes Robert Mitchum. And so do I!) for him to watch when I go to stay with him,next! (He said it was his favourite movie;if he had to pick one!)
Anyway,I digress (badly!).About the Tuba Concerto! I must admit (and I'm probably showing my ignorance here) I haven't heard of James Day. Whoever he is? He's wrong! I don't know about the 'jokes'? But it's a lovely and humorous work!
I'll have to get around to hearing the Abravanel recording,before long,too! Another conductor I like! I've got his Mahler and Sibelius cycle;which are both good! I also like his (underrated,imo) recording's of Rimsky Korsakov's 'Antar' and the Goldmark Rustic Wedding Symphony! Oh,and I've got to include his recording of Schuman's Seventh! One day,I'm going to have to hear his Tchaikovsky! But that's for another thread!!

[vandermolen]

Yes,I must say,I haven't,exactly,been blown away by the Concerto Accademica,when I've listened to it! I'll have to listen to it,now,though! Unless I turn the cd off,after the symphony!! I like the mental picture of you making your father join the library! I'm sure it was,merely,gentle persuasion?! It reminds me of my father;who isn't interested in music. He used to call the cd player,the noise machine!! revealing,much to my consternation;after my mother died,that he didn't like Bob Hope! So he was just feigning?!! The movies he sat through!! Though, I can understand him! The things I've had to listen to,or sit through;not wanting to hurt someone's feelings!! Oh well! He won't get to see the Marx Brothers!! Although,I've bought a s/h dvd of The Night of the Hunter (He likes Robert Mitchum. And so do I!) for him to watch when I go to stay with him,next! (He said it was his favourite movie;if he had to pick one!)
Anyway,I digress (badly!).About the Tuba Concerto! I must admit (and I'm probably showing my ignorance here) I haven't heard of James Day. Whoever he is? He's wrong! I don't know about the 'jokes'? But it's a lovely and humorous work!
I'll have to get around to hearing the Abravanel recording,before long,too! Another conductor I like! I've got his Mahler and Sibelius cycle;which are both good! I also like his (underrated,imo) recording's of Rimsky Korsakov's 'Antar' and the Goldmark Rustic Wedding Symphony! Oh,and I've got to include his recording of Schuman's Seventh! One day,I'm going to have to hear his Tchaikovsky! But that's for another thread!!

I very much agree with you about Maurice Abravanel as well cilgwyn. I have his interesting Sibelius cycle as well as that very good 'Antar' release as well as the fine Bloch and VW releases on Vanguard (my first encounter with 'Dona Nobis Pacem' purchased at a second hand record shop in Manchester - luckily I decided to check the vinyl before leaving Manchester as the shop had accidentally put in Schubert's 'Trout Quintet' by mistake. Had I got back to London before making this discovery I would have had a major sense of humour failure). Forcing my father to join the record library meant that I could take out six, rather than three, LPs at a time. He tended only to listen to Frank Sinatra (whom I was amazed to discover recently was an admirer of Vaughan Williams! - I'm sorry that my father is not around to hear this).

My daughter always likes me to find a suitably scary film for herself and her close friend to watch together on Halloween. Fortunately her father (ie me) is a horror film officianado and as a twelve year old my cousin and I were by far the youngest members of the 'Gothic Film Society' in Holborn. Our respective fathers were forced to take us. Anyway, last year I suggested 'Night of the Hunter'. My daughter came home from watching the film with her friend and just said 'terrifying', so obviously it was a good choice. The next day I was giving her a lift somewhere and said 'lets just see what's on the radio'. Unbeknown to her I had slipped the soundtrack of Night of the Hunter into the car's CD player so that out of the loudspeakers came the booming voice of Robert Mitchum, as the deranged priest, singing that song 'Leaning, leaning on the arms of the Lord...etc'. My daughter was quite cross with me. My father and I did share a taste for the Marx Brothers, especially 'A Night at the Opera'. Going back to Night of the Hunter it was a shame that it was originally very poorly reviewed, as a result of which Charles Laughton (a marvellous actor) never directed another film. He obviously was a great and innovative director and now of course the film is considered a great classic of the cinema.

James Day wrote the biography of VW in the 'Master Musicians' series. It is very good although we disagree with his opinion of the Tuba Concerto.

PS when I lived with my parents their bedroom was next to mine. One morning I was playing Durufle's 'Requiem' at top volume. My father came into my room complaining that it was 'like waking up in a crypt'.

[André]

Another round of Jeffrey Tales  .

Yes Night of the Hunter is that rare bird, an authentic but lone and unclassifiable masterpiece of the silver screen.

[cilgwyn]

I must admit,my taste in films tends to more populistic stuff. Old movie series (The Falcon,The Thin Man,Sherlock Holmes with Basil Rathbone,Mr Moto;they get worse!! ) cinema serials (a big fan!! ) science fiction,particularly 50's;but taking in some 60's,as well! But all the films I've bought to show to my father have been enjoyed by me,so far! La Ronde & the Queen of Spades (He likes Anton Walbrook) Le Plaisir,Cocteau's La Belle et la Bête,The Wages of Fear,Miracle in Milan,Jour de fête (Tati). These are all films he saw in the cinema,when he was young! I bought a box set of WC Fields,a couple of years ago;because my father likes him. I'm now a fan,myself! He has got to see Harpo Marx,in an episode of I Love Lucy! I bought two box sets of the show to put on for them,when my mother was alive. I couldn't get that blinking tune out of my head for days!! (LOOOCEEE!! ) I will be taking Orphée for him to watch,as well as The Night of the Hunter! Also,The Fabulous Baron Munchausen;a Czech animation,by Karel Zenman,which I bought on dvd,a few months ago;and which I'm hoping he will like? (It fair blew my mind,to be honest! Never seen anything like it!! ) I'm not sure about some of the other stuff he likes? The Black Narcissus (ME: A film about Nuns?!! My Father: Oh,but the photography!)

Erm,back to Vaughan Williams!
Vandermolen: Incidentally,I was looking at some members lists of their favourite recordings of VW symphonies,quite a few pages back! Would you mind reminding me of your current favourites for each symphony. It would be interesting to see if some of your choices have changed?!! (I'll have to try & list mine?)

[vandermolen]

I must admit,my taste in films tends to more populistic stuff. Old movie series (The Falcon,The Thin Man,Sherlock Holmes with Basil Rathbone,Mr Moto;they get worse!! ) cinema serials (a big fan!! ) science fiction,particularly 50's;but taking in some 60's,as well! But all the films I've bought to show to my father have been enjoyed by me,so far! La Ronde & the Queen of Spades (He likes Anton Walbrook) Le Plaisir,Cocteau's La Belle et la Bête,The Wages of Fear,Miracle in Milan,Jour de fête (Tati). These are all films he saw in the cinema,when he was young! I bought a box set of WC Fields,a couple of years ago;because my father likes him. I'm now a fan,myself! He has got to see Harpo Marx,in an episode of I Love Lucy! I bought two box sets of the show to put on for them,when my mother was alive. I couldn't get that blinking tune out of my head for days!! (LOOOCEEE!! ) I will be taking Orphée for him to watch,as well as The Night of the Hunter! Also,The Fabulous Baron Munchausen;a Czech animation,by Karel Zenman,which I bought on dvd,a few months ago;and which I'm hoping he will like? (It fair blew my mind,to be honest! Never seen anything like it!! ) I'm not sure about some of the other stuff he likes? The Black Narcissus (ME: A film about Nuns?!! My Father: Oh,but the photography!)

Erm,back to Vaughan Williams!
Vandermolen: Incidentally,I was looking at some members lists of their favourite recordings of VW symphonies,quite a few pages back! Would you mind reminding me of your current favourites for each symphony. It would be interesting to see if some of your choices have changed?!! (I'll have to try & list mine?)

Yes, of course, with pleasure:

A Sea Symphony: Haitink
A London Symphony 1913 version: Hickox (only recording)
A London Symphony 1920 version (my favourite version): Brabbins or Goossens ( historical recording from 1941)
A London Symphony 1936 version: Boult (EMI), Previn (RCA), Barbirolli (EMI)
A Pastoral Symphony: Previn
Symphony 4: Berglund, Mitropolous (historic recording) which I prefer to the composer's much praised version
Symphony 5: Barbirolli (EMI), Vaughan Williams (historic recording)
Symphony 6: Boult (Decca), Berglund, Thomson, Abravanel
Sinfonia Antartica: Boult (Decca) - Boult's objective approach with Vaughan Williams works well here. I also like his later EMI recording
Symphony 8: Previn
Symphony 9: Stokowski, both Boult versions, Thomson and Slatkin.

The Rozhdestvensky symphony box is also of great interest even when the organ goes a bit 'Dr Phibes' in Sinfonia Antartica.

As to Sherlock Holmes I much prefer the Basil Rathbone versions (especially the Hound of the Baskervilles) to the recent smug, knowing and self-satisfied TV series which I couldn't stand. My students thought it was wonderful and were constantly telling me to watch it. There is a statue of Conan Doyle in the local town where he lived.

[Jo498]

off topic: Do you mean Jeremy Brett's series (about 20? years ago, recent compared to Rathbone...) or the more recent "modernized" one with Cumberbatch? (I watched the first 4-5 and didn't much like it either. Which puts me in a minority among friends and relatives. I also disliked the steampunkish movie with Robert Downey jr.) Or is there still another Sherlock Holmes TV series one?

[vandermolen]

off topic: Do you mean Jeremy Brett's series (about 20? years ago, recent compared to Rathbone...) or the more recent "modernized" one with Cumberbatch? (I watched the first 4-5 and didn't much like it either. Which puts me in a minority among friends and relatives. I also disliked the steampunkish movie with Robert Downey jr.) Or is there still another Sherlock Holmes TV series one?

OT

No, the Brett was fine although he over-acted a bit. I meant the one with Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman. As I said my students loved it. I didn't like the Robert Downey one either. I did, however, very much like 'The Seven Percent Solution' with the great Nicol Williamson as the drug-addled Sherlock Holmes and a fine performance by Alan Arkin as Sigmund Freud. However, Robert Duvall's English accent as Dr Watson is something quite extraordinary..Bring back Basil Rathbone! 

[vandermolen]

The film 'Scott of the Antarctic' was on TV a week or so ago. I recorded it and stayed up late to watch it last night. I had not seen it for years (I actually arranged a screening of it when I was in charge of the Film Society at school). It was interesting to hear Vaughan Williams's music in its original context. Of course the film was very much of its time with the 'stiff upper lip' ethos of its period and made before more recent revisionism/hatchet jobs on Scott's reputation. I enjoyed the film notwithstanding remembering hearing the late film director Ken Russell saying that 'the best actors (in the film) were the penguins'.

[relm1]

The film 'Scott of the Antarctic' was on TV a week or so ago. I recorded it and stayed up late to watch it last night. I had not seen it for years (I actually arranged a screening of it when I was in charge of the Film Society at school). It was interesting to hear Vaughan Williams's music in its original context. Of course the film was very much of its time with the 'stiff upper lip' ethos of its period and made before more recent revisionism/hatchet jobs on Scott's reputation. I enjoyed the film notwithstanding remembering hearing the late film director Ken Russell saying that 'the best actors (in the film) were the penguins'.

For us Yanks, can you elaborate on the "stiff upper lip" as Arthur Benjamin has made reference to it as well and I don't quite get the meaning.  How does this translate into the story of Scott?

[vandermolen]

For us Yanks, can you elaborate on the "stiff upper lip" as Arthur Benjamin has made reference to it as well and I don't quite get the meaning.  How does this translate into the story of Scott?

OT

'Displays fortitude and stoicism in the face of adversity' is the wiki definition which sounds right to me. In Scott its most characteristic expression was Captain Oates walking out of the tent ( to his death) in a freezing blizzard, saying 'I'm just going outside and may be some time' in order to try to help his companions to survive. He was very lame probably with gangrene in his foot and was holding the others back. They refused to abandon him when he asked them to leave him in his sleeping bag so he just walked out to his death instead. Then as the remaining three lay freezing to death in their tent some miles further on  Scott carried on writing his journal in which he wrote something like 'we knew we took risks, things have worked out against us and therefore we have no cause for complaint'.

Oates and Scott were seen at the time as providing a heroic example for others to follow. It can also be seen, more worryingly,  as an invitation to a whole generation of young men to sacrifice themselves on the eve of the First World War. More recent revisionist works have painted Scott as an incompetent leader and a snob. Maybe there is a message for Brexit somewhere here! Hope this explanation helps.

Here is a painting of poor Oates going out into the blizzard:

[vandermolen]

This CD features a lovely short work 'Romance for Viola and Piano' found amongst VW's papers after his death. It reminded me a bit in spirit of the piano work 'The Lake in the Mountains':

[Christo]

This CD features a lovely short work 'Romance for Viola and Piano' found amongst VW's papers after his death. It reminded me a bit in spirit of the piano work 'The Lake in the Mountains':

The guess is, that it dates from 1914 (pre WWI), which would partly explain its later neglect. I love the orchestral version - by the viola player himself, Roger Chase - here:

[vandermolen]

The guess is, that it dates from 1914 (pre WWI), which would partly explain its later neglect. I love the orchestral version - by the viola player himself, Roger Chase - here:

Oh yes! Thanks Johan I had forgotten that it was included on that great CD.
The notes for the Tertis CD suggest that it might come from c.1930.

[Biffo]

Re: Stiff upper lip

'Displays fortitude and stoicism in the face of adversity' - correct but it also has the connotation of not showing emotions, something real men weren't supposed to do. Definitely seems to have gone out of fashion these days.

[North Star]

OT

'Displays fortitude and stoicism in the face of adversity' is the wiki definition which sounds right to me. In Scott its most characteristic expression was Captain Oates walking out of the tent ( to his death) in a freezing blizzard, saying 'I'm just going outside and may be some time' in order to try to help his companions to survive. He was very lame probably with gangrene in his foot and was holding the others back. They refused to abandon him when he asked them to leave him in his sleeping bag so he just walked out to his death instead. Then as the remaining three lay freezing to death in their tent some miles further on  Scott carried on writing his journal in which he wrote something like 'we knew we took risks, things have worked out against us and therefore we have no cause for complaint'.

Oates and Scott were seen at the time as providing a heroic example for others to follow. It can also be seen, more worryingly,  as an invitation to a whole generation of young men to sacrifice themselves on the eve of the First World War. More recent revisionist works have painted Scott as an incompetent leader and a snob. Maybe there is a message for Brexit somewhere here! Hope this explanation helps.

Here is a painting of poor Oates going out into the blizzard:

We arrived within 11 miles of our old One Ton Camp with fuel for one hot meal and food for two days. For four days we have been unable to leave the tent - the gale howling about us. We are weak, writing is difficult, but for my own sake I do not regret this journey, which has shown that Englishmen can endure hardships, help one another, and meet death with as great a fortitude as ever in the past. We took risks, we knew we took them; things have come out against us, and therefore we have no cause for complaint, but bow to the will of Providence, determined still to do our best to the last.
For God's sake look after our people.

It's as if he was writing about Brexit. 

[SymphonicAddict]

Earlier, I listened to a favorite I hadn't played in a long time: Toward the Unknown Region, for chorus and orchestra.



What I can say is that this is awesome! It's one of those works that apparently go from dark to light (something I adore in music), with some mysticism in between. This performance does justice to the work, sounds so epic, even more with the stereo at high volume!