Vaughan Williams's Veranda

[vandermolen]

I like Harriet Cohen's recording of Winter Legends. The sound isn't exactly first rate;but it,arguably,adds a little atmosphere. I think it might be possible to make a better transfer,though? (Might there be another,off-air recording,lurking somewhere?) A pity Cohen couldn't have recorded it commercially. I remember seeing a cassette of the performance advertised in one of Michael G Thomas',ads,in Gramophone. He used to sell allot of Lp's of 'off-air' recordings;including the Aries Pirate label. I bought the Lp of Havergal Brian's third symphony,from him. I didn't know I was buying a pirated recording at the time;although I remember thinking it was odd that I hadn't seen any reviews!! I've got the APR 3 cd set of Harriet Cohen's commercial recordings. She was a talented musician;and her recordings of Bach are great. The booklet,with the set,suggets that,if she's been allowed to record The Well Tempered Clavier complete,she might be better known today;and for her musicianship,rather than her looks,love life,and being Bax's mistress. A fascinating set,for Baxian's;which includes some interesting photographs,by the way. The restorations are first class! Harriet Cohen was an excellent pianist.I wish she'd recorded more!!

Going back 'on piste' didn't Vaughan Williams compose his Piano Concerto for her? I may have got this wrong but I recall something about her hands not being large enough to cope with some of the demands of the work and her being quite possessive about anyone else performing it. I might have got this totally wrong.

[Biffo]

Going back 'on piste' didn't Vaughan Williams compose his Piano Concerto for her? I may have got this wrong but I recall something about her hands not being large enough to cope with some of the demands of the work and her being quite possessive about anyone else performing it. I might have got this totally wrong.

The Piano Concerto was written for Harriet Cohen and she gave the first performance on February 1st 1933 with Boult conducting. RVW was worried the orchestration made it difficult for the soloist to be heard and gave Boult permission to thin it out as necessary. It was these concerns that led to the two-piano version. Some months later, after some revisions,  HC gave another performance in Strasbourg with Hermann Scherchen conducting.

RVW sent HC a letter discussing how long she could have exclusive rights but there doesn't seem to be any suggestion of her being possessive. It seems few other pianists were keen to take the work up. It wasn't well-received by the critics who found it too percussive though Bartok, who heard it in Strasbourg admired it.

[vandermolen]

The Piano Concerto was written for Harriet Cohen and she gave the first performance on February 1st 1933 with Boult conducting. RVW was worried the orchestration made it difficult for the soloist to be heard and gave Boult permission to thin it out as necessary. It was these concerns that led to the two-piano version. Some months later, after some revisions,  HC gave another performance in Strasbourg with Hermann Scherchen conducting.

RVW sent HC a letter discussing how long she could have exclusive rights but there doesn't seem to be any suggestion of her being possessive. It seems few other pianists were keen to take the work up. It wasn't well-received by the critics who found it too percussive though Bartok, who heard it in Strasbourg admired it.

Thanks for clarifying this Biffo. I seem to recall that Bartok liked it, which I'm pleased to hear and apologies to HC. Maybe she was possessive towards Bax rather than to VW's Piano Concerto!

[Roasted Swan]

RVW sent HC a letter discussing how long she could have exclusive rights but there doesn't seem to be any suggestion of her being possessive.

I don't know the specifics re the RVW concerto but Cohen most certainly was possessive regarding the Bax concertante works.  After Bax's death she was very loath to let anyone but her perform them which given a hand injury she could not do.  Also, the RVW revision was as much to do with the concerns re the solo writing as opposed to the thickness of the orchestral accompaniment.  Again, Cohen had relatively small hands which meant that physically she could not stretch many of the chords that both Bax & RVW wrote......

[cilgwyn]

The comments about the concerto being too percussive,are interesting! The,lovely,slow movement is anything but percussive,though. I think it's beautiful. For some reason,parts of it,reminded me of the Piano Concerto No 2,by Stanley Bate. I wonder if he could have ever heard,or seen the score,of the VW?!
Small hands,or not. And much has been made of that,over the years! My response to Harriet Cohen's playing,on the 3 cd,APR set,was,what a fine pianist! And they do say (Leopold Kohr,actually!) small is beautiful! As to Bartok! It's good to hear that Bartok was an admirer! (He should know! ) I think it's probably the finest British Piano Concerto! But,maybe,that one is open to debate?!!

[Irons]

The comments about the concerto being too percussive,are interesting! The,lovely,slow movement is anything but percussive,though. I think it's beautiful. For some reason,parts of it,reminded me of the Piano Concerto No 2,by Stanley Bate. I wonder if he could have ever heard,or seen the score,of the VW?!
Small hands,or not. And much has been made of that,over the years! My response to Harriet Cohen's playing,on the 3 cd,APR set,was,what a fine pianist! And they do say (Leopold Kohr,actually!) small is beautiful! As to Bartok! It's good to hear that Bartok was an admirer! (He should know! ) I think it's probably the finest British Piano Concerto! But,maybe,that one is open to debate?!!

The John Ireland PC is often said to be the best.

[vandermolen]

The John Ireland PC is often said to be the best.

I think that the Ireland is possibly more 'polished' but I prefer the VW especially in the version for two pianos. I enjoy the Ireland as well. I also rate the Concerto for Two Pianos by Lennox Berkeley and the Concerto No.2 by Alan Rawsthorne very highly as well as both the ones by Bliss

[North Star]

The Tippett is certainly up there as well.

[cilgwyn]

The John Ireland PC is often said to be the best.

I'm a bit of a fan of the John Ireland;and I'd be happy to go along with that! I've put the Tippett on one side,for another listen! I  should point out;I'm not really that keen on comparisons. I was just making a point!

[cilgwyn]

Incidentally,I've got more VW in the post! Bryden Thomson's recordings of the eighth symphony,and third. And not content with decimating ,what's left of my bank account,there; I also bought the Dutton cd of Boult,Gramophone premieres. The cd includes his 1946 recording of Job.

[Irons]

A friend who's opinion I respect highly is a great fan of the two piano RVW concerto. I have the Vronsky and Babin recording and must spend some time with it. Like cilgwyn I am big admirer of John Ireland but although probably his most famous work I do not find the piano concerto typical of him.

[calyptorhynchus]

It wasn't well-received by the critics who found it too percussive though Bartok, who heard it in Strasbourg admired it.

There's a great story that Bartok come to England some time in the 20s or 30s and dropped in on Herbert Howells. Howells asked him to play something Hungarian, so he played a Hungarian dance that had the plates rattling in the kitchen. Afterwards he asked Howells to play something English and Howells sat down and played some little fancy or other by Farnaby, far quieter!

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

There's a great story that Bartok come to England some time in the 20s or 30s and dropped in on Herbert Howells. Howells asked him to play something Hungarian, so he played a Hungarian dance that had the plates rattling in the kitchen. Afterwards he asked Howells to play something English and Howells sat down and played some little fancy or other by Farnaby, far quieter!

If Howells wasn't such a sissy he could have thought of something English to rattle the plates too...

[Irons]

If Howells wasn't such a sissy he could have thought of something English to rattle the plates too...

Bartok should have met up with Cyril Scott. He would have rattled said plates!

[vandermolen]

Incidentally,I've got more VW in the post! Bryden Thomson's recordings of the eighth symphony,and third. And not content with decimating ,what's left of my bank account,there; I also bought the Dutton cd of Boult,Gramophone premieres. The cd includes his 1946 recording of Job.

Excellent. I've been involved in a discussion on the Musicweb bulletin board about Bryden Thomson (my life is so exciting). Anyway one of the contributors to the discussion rated Bryden Thomson's recording of Vaughan Williams's 8th Symphony as the greatest one ever - so, I'm sure that you'll enjoy your new purchase. That Boult premiere recording of 'Job' is excellent and I like the Bliss Music for Strings as well.

[cilgwyn]

Excellent. I've been involved in a discussion on the Musicweb bulletin board about Bryden Thomson (my life is so exciting). Anyway one of the contributors to the discussion rated Bryden Thomson's recording of Vaughan Williams's 8th Symphony as the greatest one ever - so, I'm sure that you'll enjoy your new purchase. That Boult premiere recording of 'Job' is excellent and I like the Bliss Music for Strings as well.

It arrived  (Thomson's VW Sym Eight) this morning;but you'll ,no doubt,be horrified to know that I felt compelled to listen through a small pile of operas,first!! I will be coming to it,shortly,though!! I'm looking forward to hearing the Oboe Concerto,as well! I even enjoyed the Concerto Accademica,in Bryden Thomson's recording! (It has previously made little impression!) He makes everything sound so,great!

[vandermolen]

It arrived  (Thomson's VW Sym Eight) this morning;but you'll ,no doubt,be horrified to know that I felt compelled to listen through a small pile of operas,first!! I will be coming to it,shortly,though!! I'm looking forward to hearing the Oboe Concerto,as well! I even enjoyed the Concerto Accademica,in Bryden Thomson's recording! (It has previously made little impression!) He makes everything sound so,great!

Well, I'll forgive you about the operas cilgwyn as they are clearly being simply played as the aperitif to Vaughan Williams's 8th Symphony. My new cheapo Karajan boxed-set featuring Honegger's 2nd and 3rd symphonies in a mini-version of their original LP sleeve, featuring a nice image of Honegger rather than (thank goodness) yet another picture of Karajan, contains a disc of 'Opera Intermezzi' which will not be getting much play time here. The other CDs of Mahler, Sibelius and Honegger are of much more interest to me and I might even give the Richard Strauss one a spin. I have no objection to 'Concerto Accademica' but find it more 'pleasant enough' rather than anything special. It's probably suitable music to have on, for example, while you're doing the washing up. The Oboe Concerto, however, is a very fine work. I recall and interview with Evelyn Rothwell, the oboist and wife of Barbirolli saying how highly she regarded the work. I'll look forward to hearing your views of your new Bryden Thomson VW CD.

[cilgwyn]

Actually,I was just having another listen to some opera recordings,before deciding whether to take them to a charity shop,to free up some,much needed,room here! I wish I hadn't! Now I'm wanting to keep some of them!! Actually,I wouldn't go out of my way to listen to the Concerto Accademica,on it's own. It,just sounds,a bit lusher,in the Thomson recording. The Chandos sound probably has something to do with it? And it comes as a nice contrast,after the turbulence of the Fourth. Imho,anyway! If it was the Serenade or Wasps Overture,I'd probably just turn it off!!
Yes,how many photos of the Great Maestro,Karajan,do you need?!! Answer: none! Great hair,though!! Of course,the Oboe Concerto is paired with the third symphony;which I haven't got yet! The eighth symphony;which I will put on,before long;has some very,nice fill-ups (again,horrible word! Must find an alternative!) which I am looking forward to hearing!
I am 'with you',on the Serenade,and the Wasps Overture (in that order!). I would,definitely,prefer to listen to the Concerto Accademica,to either of those works. The addition of the SErenade to Handley's recording of the Sinfonia Antartica,puts me off buying it,every time I even think about buying it! I think Towards the Unknown Region,is a much better choice of........(Ahem !),fill-up!

I must admit to being,increasingly,tempted by Bryden Thomson's recordings of the Elgar symphonies. And I wouldn't mind hearing his Enigma Variations;which has a nice,rarity,as a fill-up..............additional item.....bonus?!! Okay,let's try,again!! I wouldn't mind hearing his recording of the Enigma Variations,which is paired with a delightful rarity (I haven't heard,it,really!),The Sanguine Fan! I'll buy the cd with the nice picture on the front,of course! (I think there's one with a boring,purple,cover?!)

By the way (vandermolen) do you like the Pomp and Circumstance Marches,at all? I must admit,haven't heard them for a while! Actually,this the wrong thread! But I think I will stock up with them? At present,I'm wavering between,the Boult,paired with the Variations;or Barbirolli,with Cockaign and Froissart! Or maybe,both?!!

[Roasted Swan]

By the way (vandermolen) do you like the Pomp and Circumstance Marches,at all? I must admit,haven't heard them for a while! Actually,this the wrong thread! But I think I will stock up with them? At present,I'm wavering between,the Boult,paired with the Variations;or Barbirolli,with Cockaign and Froissart! Or maybe,both?!!

Menuhin's set of the P&C marches (and other works in similar vein) is very good indeed - just the right swagger and suitably opulent sound

[asin]B00000DNYS[/asin]

[vandermolen]

Actually,I was just having another listen to some opera recordings,before deciding whether to take them to a charity shop,to free up some,much needed,room here! I wish I hadn't! Now I'm wanting to keep some of them!! Actually,I wouldn't go out of my way to listen to the Concerto Accademica,on it's own. It,just sounds,a bit lusher,in the Thomson recording. The Chandos sound probably has something to do with it? And it comes as a nice contrast,after the turbulence of the Fourth. Imho,anyway! If it was the Serenade or Wasps Overture,I'd probably just turn it off!!
Yes,how many photos of the Great Maestro,Karajan,do you need?!! Answer: none! Great hair,though!! Of course,the Oboe Concerto is paired with the third symphony;which I haven't got yet! The eighth symphony;which I will put on,before long;has some very,nice fill-ups (again,horrible word! Must find an alternative!) which I am looking forward to hearing!
I am 'with you',on the Serenade,and the Wasps Overture (in that order!). I would,definitely,prefer to listen to the Concerto Accademica,to either of those works. The addition of the SErenade to Handley's recording of the Sinfonia Antartica,puts me off buying it,every time I even think about buying it! I think Towards the Unknown Region,is a much better choice of........(Ahem !),fill-up!

I must admit to being,increasingly,tempted by Bryden Thomson's recordings of the Elgar symphonies. And I wouldn't mind hearing his Enigma Variations;which has a nice,rarity,as a fill-up..............additional item.....bonus?!! Okay,let's try,again!! I wouldn't mind hearing his recording of the Enigma Variations,which is paired with a delightful rarity (I haven't heard,it,really!),The Sanguine Fan! I'll buy the cd with the nice picture on the front,of course! (I think there's one with a boring,purple,cover?!)

By the way (vandermolen) do you like the Pomp and Circumstance Marches,at all? I must admit,haven't heard them for a while! Actually,this the wrong thread! But I think I will stock up with them? At present,I'm wavering between,the Boult,paired with the Variations;or Barbirolli,with Cockaign and Froissart! Or maybe,both?!!

You and I cigwyn must be the only two here who don't like the 'Serenade to Music' - a cloying and self-congratulatory work (I'm heading to my bomb shelter right now! ) I used to listen to Elgar much more than I do now. I love all three symphonies but find the Enigma Variations, great as they are, over familiar and sometimes I find a stuffy complacency about some of Elgar's music which is unappealing - however this is a reflection on me rather than Sir Edward, whose museum/home it was a great pleasure to visit. His Cello Concerto is my daughter's favourite piece of classical music and it was great to hear it at the Proms (with VW's Dona Nobis Pacem and a very moving work by the tragically short-lived Lili Boulanger) - it was a great evening. Yes, I do like Pomp and Circumstance marches, especially No.4 if I remember correctly. I'm especially fond of an LP on Decca 'Ace of Diamonds' (those were the days) coupled with 'Things to Come' Film Suite by Bliss. Both scores were conducted by Sir Arthur Bliss himself. Did I tell you cigwyn that my uncle, who worked for the Performing Rights Society found himself next to Sir Arthur (who was the President of the PRS) in a urinal? My uncle asked Sir Arthur for his autograph to which the latter, genially replied 'certainly, as soon as I get my hands free old boy'. Anyway, that Ace of Diamonds LP (I'll see if I can find it in a moment) had an atmospheric cover, linking both works, showing a member of the Household Cavalry transforming into an ominous gas-masked figure.

Here it is: